Des Moines Area Community College President

Kay Henderson

He's DMACC's longest serving president with a long list of accomplishments. Rob Denson is retiring in December, and he joins us for a conversation on this edition of Iowa Press.

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For decades, Iowa Press has brought you political leaders and newsmakers from across Iowa and beyond. Celebrating more than 50 years on statewide Iowa PBS, this is the Friday, October 31st edition of Iowa Press. Here is Kay Henderson.

Kay Henderson

Our guest on this edition of Iowa Press started at Des Moines Area Community College on November 1st, 2003. So he's approaching his 22nd anniversary in the role. He is retiring on December 31st of this year. Rob Denson is an Iowa native with bachelor's and master's degrees from Iowa State University and a law degree from the University of Florida. After working several years as an attorney, he moved into higher education, first at Santa Fe Community College in Gainesville, Florida. He served as president of Northeast Iowa Community College from 1998 to 2003, when he became president of Des Moines Area Community College. Rob Denson, welcome to Iowa Press.

Rob Denson

Thank you. It's an honor to be here.

Kay Henderson

Also joining our conversation, Erin Murphy of The Gazette in Cedar Rapids.

Erin Murphy

So, Rob, one of the big movements happening right now in the community college system is the discussion about the exploration of community colleges adding four year degrees to their curriculum. We have some state lawmakers exploring that. There's been a recent report about that possibility. I'm curious to get your perspective as a person who's been in the system for a long time, is that a good thing to get more people with those degrees? Or is that, in your mind, straying too far from the original intention and purpose of the community colleges?

Rob Denson

Yeah, that's a good question. And right now, 24 states allow their community colleges to do bachelor's degree. And it may not be four years. Our accreditation agency has now okayed three year bachelor's degrees, moving from 120 credits down to to 90. When I was in Florida, Santa Fe Community College was one of the first to do the bachelor's degree. But really, it was because there was no capacity at the University of Florida and other Florida universities. Here, we've got a great relationship with all the privates and the three Regents. So I'm a little concerned that, you know, we're interfering with some of the work of our partners. We were asked by Taylor Collins and the House to give them a report as to what it would take. We've done that. The community college legislative agenda does not include a request to do bachelor's degrees. So it's really going to be what the legislature decides to do. But I think we've got a pretty good system now. All three Regents have capacity. Most private colleges have capacity. And again, we've been we've worked together so well for so many years.

Erin Murphy

Yeah. You touched on that. And we heard from the private colleges about this. They've issued a statement - their statewide organization - about sharing some of those concerns. And there's something in there, isn't there, about because you have partnerships with them right now, like high school students, for example, can take college credits at DMACC that can then be translated to credits at private colleges.

Rob Denson

Absolutely. Yeah. That's an interesting story. We do about 20,000 high school students a year in concurrent enrollment. And we had a young woman graduate from Roosevelt this year. She got her two year degree from DMACC two weeks before she graduated from high school. She's now at Harvard.

Erin Murphy

Wow.

Rob Denson

Most of our students transfer to Iowa State. That's our largest number one source. In fact, I was up at Iowa State last week giving a lecture to a political science group and the dean of the political science department - about 60 kids in the room - asked how many students had DMACC credit, and the majority of them did. Surprised him and made me very happy. But yeah, we've got a great relationship with the privates and the universities, so it's and we're with…what the legislature is saying is, look at those bachelor's degrees in high demand fields. So it's probably going to be in areas where students can't really get it now. And if we concentrate on just supporting students that don't have another option, it'll probably be okay. And there are some areas in the state, western Iowa, et cetera. where they're kind of education deserts. There's a community college there, but no real university or private college within driving distance. So I think we're going to make this thing work. But again, the legislature has got to make the decision.

Erin Murphy

Okay. And then could you speak to, as I understand, there are some potential challenges with this, whether it's being able to recruit the faculty that you would need or it possibly would you have to increase tuition to be able to operate these types of programs?

Rob Denson

No. We would not plan on raising tuition the last year or two of a bachelor's degree. We said we could go up to 150% of what we're currently charging. We've asked for $20 million, if they tell us they want us to do this. And we've asked for $20 million over five years to make sure we get all the equipment, et cetera. Most of our faculty are already qualified. They've got masters and PhDs, so they're the qualifications are there. Some areas may be more difficult than others. But again, we're going to work with the privates and publics to make this work.

Erin Murphy

So is your, and forgive me, we'll move on. But is your primary concern then just overlap? Like you don't want to be duplicating what the Regents and the privates are already offering?

Rob Denson

We don't want to compete. You know, we should… We don't want to compete head to head. But right now, we already are in some ways, for the first two years of a four year degree. But we really don't want to get in a competitive mood. You know, every community in Iowa that’s got a private college, if they lost that college, it would be a big deal. So we would like the fact that the colleges now are doing all right, and we want to make sure they stay viable.

Kay Henderson

Last I checked, you had about 60,000 students enrolled at DMACC. Is that still current?

Rob Denson

37,000 credit students and 20,000 noncredit students. So yes, it's good. So in 2003 when I came, there was 22,000 students at DMACC. Now it's 37,000. We've grown about 70%. But again, it's to meet the needs of students. And more and more students and their families are realizing that the community college is a good way to start the first two years, price wise, et cetera. It's a, you know, our rates are much lower than universities or private colleges. So same quality of degrees. And when our students transfer to Iowa State or anywhere else, they graduate at the same rate with the same grades as students who started out there. And many of our students could not have gotten in as freshmen. So they come to us for two years. Our average class size is 18. That's the most that's the best number. 37,000 students. But with an average class size of 18. When I went to Iowa State in 1966, I was hardly ever in a class with less than several hundred. But our faculty get to know our students and vice versa.

Kay Henderson

Again, getting in the way back machine. In 2016, then Governor Terry Branstad announced a Future Ready initiative, hoping that by 2025, 70% of Iowa's workforce would have some sort of post-high school degree or certification. Governor Reynolds announced last year that the state had met that goal. How hard was it to get there and what's next?

Rob Denson

Well, we've had great support from the legislature and Governor Reynolds. They've got last dollar scholarships where Iowa Workforce Development identifies 60 high demand fields that we should focus on. The legislature provides money so that students that come to us in tool and die, welding and others, no out-of-pocket tuition. They have to use their Pell if they get Pell for low income. But before they pay any tuition out of their pockets, the state will pay the bill. We've had about 3000 students in the last couple of years go through this. We've drawn down about $2.4 million out of the last dollar scholarship fund. Great, great partnership with the legislature. And we're a bipartisan organization. We get support from Republicans and Democrats, and they're making sure that we stay focused on our mission. And we you know, we've got true local control. So we have to follow the law. But otherwise, we got a lot of flexibility.

Kay Henderson

You have been at the helm during the Great Recession of 2008 and the pandemic of 2020. What happens to enrollment during those times? Do people then gravitate toward a more affordable community college two year degree, or do they stay out of the system?

Rob Denson

Usually during any economic turndown, we get more students. And we've done very well. COVID was not the same, though. COVID came and that hurt everybody for a few years. We're now larger than we were pre-COVID, so we're doing pretty well. But again, we work real hard. So we had COVID and then we had a cyber attack in 2021. That was a scary operation. Pat and I were driving down to see our grandson and his children, our son and grandchildren in Birmingham, Alabama, when I got the call that we'd been breached. But our system worked. It alerted in the middle of the night some of our technicians that there was something bad going on. We shut her down. We had great insurance company that provided technical expertise, crisis communicators, a lot of hardware people. And we put 7 or 8 of our I.T. people in a room with all kinds of computers. We talked to the FBI and they said they didn't need to get involved because it was like whack a mole. You know, we had our people there watching everything and reacting in real time. And because we were on top of it, I think there were seven names of individuals with their identifiable information that the bad guys found. And of course, we provided insurance for them. So in my, from everything I know it was no real problem.

Erin Murphy

Speaking of the partnership with the state government and policymakers, the governor's Task Force on Government Efficiency recently came out with its series of recommendations. And one of them including the suggestion that business leaders in the state should be more involved with the community college system to help the community colleges produce the workforce that Iowa businesses need. You, I think, it’s fair to say and correct me if I'm wrong, but have been a pretty fair supporter of public private partnerships. What was your reaction? What's your take on that recommendation from the task force?

Rob Denson

Well, businesses are already very engaged with us. Every one of our programs has an advisory committee of the companies that hire students out of that program. So they tell us in real time what competencies they need, what type of equipment we should have so that when they leave us, the students are ready to go to work. So I think we've got great relationships. Now, what the DOGE report said that is concerning is to move 260E new jobs training and a number of the funding sources that we get, move it from community colleges to Iowa Workforce Development. We've got a great relationship with Iowa Workforce Development. But the funding we get from running all those programs also allows us to operate all of our business resource support. So we go to companies now, be mostly noncredit, we go to companies and say, what kind of training do you need? We can deliver it on their site, on our site, whatever. Because the goal is to help businesses achieve their goals. So we're concerned. And if that report was fully implemented, that could be as much as an $8 million hit to DMACC. So we're watching it closely. And our companies are talking to their legislators to let them know how valuable this is statewide.

Erin Murphy

Yeah. And I should clarify to your point, those are just recommendations. We'll find out when the legislature convenes in January whether they pursue any of those. And speaking of which, one thing I know we're going to hear about when the legislature convenes in January is property taxes. DMACC has, if I'm not mistaken, the lowest property tax level levy in the community college system. I'm curious to hear if you have been talking to state legislators as they are exploring ways to limit the growth of local property taxes, what you're telling them.

Rob Denson

Yes. Again, our tuition right now is more than 50% of the cost of our operations. When the community colleges were set up, it was supposed to be a third, a third, a third. A third tuition, a third state and a third property tax. Well, right now, property tax is only 8 or 9% of our budget. The state gives about 30%. So the state's doing their part. And but we're at 50% of our operating budget comes from tuition. So we'd like to get that changed as soon as we can. But yes, we are talking to legislators about all these things. And again, we've had great support and we expect it to be a lively discussion, probably the same as the discussion about baccalaureate degrees. But I think we're pretty confident that the legislature will listen to us because, you know, with the funding we get, we do so much that we couldn't do without that funding. And I talk about our DMACC business research resources that's with every company.

Erin Murphy

When you hear the debate that they've been having, and it's been going on for a couple of years now, are any of the proposals that you've heard, any of the mechanisms that they've discussed, any of those that give you pause?

Rob Denson

Not at this time. What we've heard and the things they're most interested in really don't impact the levy authority that we have. And really, we can only go up so much. We only got so many, so many funds. But, so DMACC got the highest bond rating in the state or as high as anybody else, lowest property tax levy, lowest tuition and fees of any college or university in the state. Because in our area, cost is everything. You know, we have 55% of our students are the first one in their family to go to college. 35% of our students are low income. And we know that students who get a grant or a scholarship from our foundation are 30 percentage points more likely to complete than students who don't. And whether it's a car breakdown, whatever. And we've just launched a new scholarship called the DMACC Opportunity Scholarship for highly motivated, low income students to make sure that we have the ability to help a student when they need it. It could be a book. It could…whatever it is. And we're not going to let a little bit of money get in the way of completing. And I'm…quickly just say that in 1941, my mother graduated from Norway High School at age 16. She wanted to be the first in her family to have a bachelor's degree. Her folks didn't have the money. She went to her uncles. They had the money, but they said they couldn't support her without supporting the other eight kids in her family and they couldn't do it all. So she went to UNI for three months to get a teacher's certificate. Taught in a one room country school. She was active in 4-H, her church, raised five kids. At age 57, she got her bachelor's degree from Coe and she was one of the first individuals above average age to get into the scholarship program there. So before she passed away last summer, she helped create a fund at DMACC for our students that they're here, they just need a little bit of help getting through. And my mom from her fund, put the first 50,000 into our opportunity scholarship. And we've now raised about 350,000 as an endowment. And we'll use the interest. So it'll go on forever.

Kay Henderson

There has been a lot of discussion over the past decade of science, technology, engineering and math. The STEM disciplines. How has that changed what DMACC has done over the past 20 or 30 years?

Rob Denson

Not at all. I mean, we're we've always concentrated on that because in so many of our career and technical programs, math is a big deal. You know, our science labs are state of the art. In our health sciences program, we've got a $100,000 piece of equipment, all video, where they can literally take skin off layer by layer for our nursing students to learn what goes on inside the body. So, you know, it's a good system right now. And we've got, we work very hard to make sure that we're competent, ready. A new area is A.I.

Kay Henderson

That's what my next question was. What's going to happen with A.I.? Artificial intelligence? And will you have to create new courses for students?

Rob Denson

So a year ago, Intel Corporation chose DMACC as the first college or university in the state of Iowa to be an A.I. for the workforce college. They gave us curriculum. So October a year ago, we started a noncredit offering, and this September we started a credit offering. Companies tell us they want A.I. competencies, but they don't really understand what it is. But we want to make sure our students are ready, know how to effectively and ethically use any A.I. that they're going to be happening. Because literally, everybody's going to have to deal more with it. I'm 78 years old, and I've learned how to do it. How to how to give better queries to get the information you want.

Kay Henderson

So will it eventually be a course like that, be a course that every student should take?

Rob Denson

Yes. I think in the end, we've got to package that in a way and then figure out how that how it interacts with every one of the 220 degrees, certificates and diplomas that we have. Because it's going to…it'll be everywhere. A.I. is something that we're going to have to deal with and all of our students will have to know.

Erin Murphy

You touched on this a little bit earlier, and I wanted to come back to some of the recent programs you've established to sort of get at certain students. You mentioned the highly motivated, low income folks. You've also had recent programs looking for first generation students, people whose folks and grandparents didn't go to college. A dropout recovery program. Why are these types of targeted approaches something that you feel is important to DMACC’s mission?

Rob Denson

Well, we know that higher education has value. And we want students to…and we've got 65,000 people in central Iowa who have some college but no degree. But we want to get them in and get them through because it is a credential that is important. It's recognized by businesses. And it becomes a jumping off point for whatever else they might want to do. Because a lot of times, whatever their first job is is not going to be the same thing as their last job. We continue to grow, take advantage of opportunities. I tell every student that there is a secret of life, and it's hard work. And the harder you work, the luckier you're going to get. And the second thing I tell them is you must be present to win. You've got to show up. And you've got to show up on time. Because there's so many of these soft skills or employability skills that companies want, our students…I mean, they're willing to do it. They just don't always know what they're supposed to do. And we've got to make it easier for them to get to that. We've got a one credit course that our students should take at the very beginning of their program that helps them navigate our system. You know, how to see an advisor, see a counselor, set up your schedule, et cetera. Because most students don't know when they come here what they're likely to face. So we need to let them know.

Kay Henderson

You have, at DMACC, had an online course for people who work for the Transportation Safety Administration. Tell us about that and what's happened.

Rob Denson

All right. 2011 TSA comes to us to do a Homeland Security certificate for the screeners at the Des Moines airport. 2014, we put it online. 2017, the head of TSA flies in from D.C., summons us to the airport, tells us they've got 80 colleges and universities doing this training around the country for their particular airports, but they were so happy with DMACC’s program that they terminated 78 of the contracts and gave DMACC 36 states, 220 airports, 24,000 agents to train. Well, that was good until 2019 when they fired the other one. And since 2019, we've had all 50 states, 44,000 agents, 440 airports. And TSA will pay their way through the certificate. And if they don't have a two year degree, TSA has been paying their way through DMACC online. We have about 500 kids a term, 500 TSA employees a term, working in our online program. Well, with everything else coming out of D.C., it's been paused. So at this time, we're not doing anything. We had six faculty that we had to reassign. But we just don't have any money. And Senators Ernst and Grassley and Representative Nunn are all trying to help us get over this hump, because it was a great program. Clearly good for us, but good for these these screeners. Because we should want them to have Homeland security expertise as they're working with the individuals that pass through the airports.

Erin Murphy

We got about five minutes left. I wanted to give you some time to do a little maybe exit interview type of session, get you a little reflective here. You've been in the Iowa community college system for almost three decades. What are the biggest changes you've seen in that time?

Rob Denson

Clearly, technology, which probably is always going to be a changing process. A lot more online. We had a very good online program when COVID hit. That saved us. So it's growing. It's even got better. But I think that's the main thing. But I also think more and more parents, students understand the value of a community college. And if you've got the money to pay for your kid's education, send them wherever you want. But if you have to borrow money, and a lot of these student loans are there a long time. If you need to borrow money, go to your community college for the first two years. Save a tremendous amount of money. When you go to Iowa State, you'll still you'll still be an Iowa State grad, but you've just done it more economically. And the quality is the same.

Erin Murphy

And how about looking forward? What are maybe some big challenges you foresee or hopes for community colleges in the coming years and decades?

Rob Denson

I think you're going to see more and more high school students graduate with their with their two year degree. We have about 150 right now throughout our district that graduate with their two year degree the same week they graduate from high school. I think you're going to see more than that. Because these kids are ready. I mean, they're smart enough. We just need to give them the opportunity. And the state has a great process. The K-12s can draw down supplemental funding to partner with us to give these students the education. So I think you're going to see a lot more of that going on. So I'm the fourth president of DMACC in 59 years. I'm the longest serving by two years. But I'm the first native born Iowan to be president of DMACC, which I am most proud of. And I look forward to…Pat and I are going to stay in Ankeny. We've got grandkids in Birmingham, Alabama, and grandkids in Tacoma, Washington. So we'll do a little bit of traveling. But we love, we're glad to be back in Iowa.

Kay Henderson

Why did you get into higher ed? You have a law degree.

Rob Denson

Well, I was in higher ed. I was an assistant dean of students at Iowa State, assistant dean of students at the University of Florida. Got the law degree while I was there. Was patent license counsel for the University of Florida for two years. Then I opened up my own trial practice. And honestly, the reason that I retired from law and got back into higher ed, the practice of law changed when more lawyers started advertising. My practice, I was, I only did trial work. Mainly by referral from other lawyers. But when everybody started to go on the billboards, busses, et cetera., the practice changed. We had done very well, so it was just a good time to retire.

Kay Henderson

You also had experience in Gainesville, Florida, at a community college there. How would you compare and contrast systems in other states with Iowa's?

Rob Denson

Iowa's is very well regarded nationally. But I would say as Santa Fe Community College operates, it's very similar to what DMACC does and about the same size. So it, all high performing colleges do very well. And in Iowa we do something that's pretty unique. The state gives us a lump sum of money every year, and then we divide that money. And we divide it in a way that the smaller colleges, who don't have an economy of scale that we do, they need more money than DMACC does. I think the last couple of years we get about $2,300 per student. Iowa Lakes in Emmetsburg gets about 6000 per student. But again, we've got an economy of scale that they can't touch. So we, and we want all 15 to remain strong.

Kay Henderson

Finally, we've got about a minute left. You have a commercial driver's license correct?

Rob Denson

Yes.

Kay Henderson

What happened to the semi that you've been driving around in parades?

Rob Denson

Well, I worked my way through college driving a semi for the Kent Corporation. It was in my blood. So when I came back to NICC in Dubuque area, we went to call on the Freightliner dealer for another reason. And he found out that I was a, had a CDL. So he just said, okay, pick one. Take it. So I for five years I just took one off the lot and pulled the trailer around for parades in Northeast Iowa. I come down here and truck center companies wanted to do the same thing. So I just turned in my 22nd tractor. They custom paint it DMACC blue. We use it for free. I usually give them a check. They give me the check back when I turn the truck back in. So it's a no cost to the college other than a tank of fuel and some decal work. But Pat and I have done over 400 parades since 1998, and I really love it. I'm not sure I'll be driving a truck ever again, but I'm keeping my license.

Kay Henderson

Glad to know it. And thank you for being here today and telling your story to our viewers.

Rob Denson

Thank you very much, Kay. Thank you. Erin, thank you.

Kay Henderson

You can watch other episodes of Iowa Press at iowapbs.org. For everyone here at Iowa PBS, thanks for watching today.

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