Economic Pressure Drives Mental Health Crisis on America's Farms

[Yeager] There's a new way to stay connected and know what's happening with market to market. When you subscribe to Market Insider, one email and a lot of information awaits you. Go to markettomarket.org and subscribe to Market Insider. How's your health? It's not just a simple question, it is reality. And it is a serious thing. How are you doing? No, really. How are you doing? If you've long since complained about pain in your hip, why are you not complaining about things that are going on in your life? There is economic challenges in agriculture. There always is, always seems to be. That hasn't changed. And if we get a dollar or two rally in any of these commodity markets, does that really fix the problem or is it still going to leave? What is going on? Professionals are there and people are wanting to talk about how your health is. I'm Paul Yeager, this is the MToM podcast. This is part two of our discussion with Bridget Readel from North Dakota. She has a career that started in first it was teaching an extension, then she got into the field and never left, for more than two decades. As an agronomist now she is a communicator. She is talking to people in individual groups and on a broadcast platform, WDAY. in Fargo, North Dakota. She's also with Acres TV and, she's in all sorts of avenues, and it's kind of fun to discuss with her. We're going to talk mostly today about one of her projects called The Rural Well, it is with someone in Canada. We'll talk about the U.S. and Canadian farmer, what their mindsets like, what your mindsets like. Please give this to a listen. If you are on the farm or off the farm, or for sure if you know somebody there because you can help. Here's how. Here's the episode right here on the MToM podcast.

[Yeager] How's our everyday lives and our health?

[Bridgette Readel] Is not as good as one could hope. And I'm not just talking physical. There is a real concern with mental health right now. And part of that starts back in the 80s. You know, you've got folks that lived through that time frame with what's considered the last major farm crisis. We didn't have words like depression, anxiety. We certainly didn't talk about suicide. That was very much taboo. We now bring those things forward and we talk about them. But our suicide rates haven't dropped. In fact, this year looks to be one of the worst, especially in the farming and ranching community. Farmers are three and a half times more likely to commit suicide than any other demographic in the US. North Dakota ranks 14th in suicide rates, and the majority of that is made up by our farm producers. Those are frightening statistics.

[Yeager] And when you say demographic, do you mean vocation, or do you mean a certain age of a farmer that is more susceptible?

[Readel] I do mean vocation when I say that.

[Yeager] Well, but I'm also curious about age, though too, in that that's what's intriguing me.

[Readel] You know, just in the last month. So we're doing this in the month of September, which is Suicide Awareness Month across the US. And I have had eight farmers in a five state region die by suicide, and they ranged in age from 25 to 68. And so that and your age range is very wide. I had a listener email me last night saying, I heard you talk about, you know, the signs of suicide. And I can't say thank you enough for bringing this up. My dad died in 1984 by suicide. He was 42 years old. So this is still a concern. And it is heartbreaking for the families left behind because often a farmer might have thought that they gave a solution. It wasn't a solution. It really wasn't.

[Yeager] This topic is sensitive for many because it is something that has impacted so many of us and darn near all of us, and sometimes it's multiple times. Yes, any thread between these suicides? No one is the same, but is there anything that you can draw from any pattern?

[Readel] If I were to draw a pattern and this feels very loose, it would be economics. There seems to be the thought that I can't overcome my economic situation, and I'm very scared that I will no longer be farming. And it also may be the pressure of I am fourth or fifth whatever generation farmer, and I might be the one to lose it or have to downsize or take a separate job to supplement the farm. And the pressure that those folks are under is tremendous, and they are scared and they don't feel that there are alternatives. And I, I try not to make this sound scary and use scary language, but it is very frightening. When you. I had a conversation via text this morning with a farmer in Nebraska who said, I don't think I want my kids to farm. And I said, what's the solution? How do we make this better for you? And his response a bullet. We put animals out of their misery. You know, right then that folks are frightened and you have to talk further with them to try to help understand their situation and ask them if you can find a way to get them help.

[Yeager] This is a topic that is hard in agriculture because, you know, farmers might like to talk about one thing, but there's plenty of farmers that don't like to talk about anything. And, you know, this topic is one they don't want to touch at all. They don't want to admit, they don't want you to know that they're in trouble, that the banker has had a phone call, another call this other we're notoriously private, reserved, withheld. Maybe it's just my generation, but I don't think it's changed that much.

[Readel] Nobody wants to talk about failure, right? It's great to go to town and, you know, talk about your soybean bushel yield and your hat and, you know, maybe a little bit of pride in that. You might smirk some when you sure it. But if you are struggling and you feel like you're upside down in some equipment, you're you're nervous about going to town because you owe money, that you don't have the cash flow to pay right now, and you don't know who to tell. Your wife already went to take a job off the farm, and I don't want to just generalize and talk about guys who farm. But you know that we know that that's a heavy part of the population. You feel like you already sent your way back to town to get a job. You're not able to do the things with your kids that you would normally do because of concerns over cash flow. You feel all that pressure to take care of everybody and you don't see a way out. That's frightening. I have a farmer friend in Minnesota. She now farms rather unexpectedly. She was a city girl who her greatest accomplishment was learning to drive the grain cart. Her husband died by suicide because of the economics of their farm, and he thought that was a way to save it. She now farms. She wasn't ever intending to, but she has really had to step in and take on roles that she never expected.

[Yeager] And I'm sure that's not the only case where that's happened.

[Readel] There are many.

[Yeager] Is going to happen again and again. One thing, Bridgette, that has been brought before is just simple check ins with farmers. We're not all trained in things. How do we help in this if we're not trained or don't feel like we have the expertise to assist.

[Readel] Versus where we were in the 80s versus where we were ten years ago. We have so many resources to go to, it's hard to know where to start, because if you haven't ever thought about depression or anxiety and you're nervous, where do I start? I went to some farmers and I used social media for this, and I asked them, what's your best farmer? A farmer to farmer advice. And so here's a couple of things. Number one, if it's you in that position, go to your family doctor and be honest. Farmers are notorious for going in and saying, oh, I'm fine, but my wife made me come or, you know, I have this little bit of pain and it turns out that it's a broken femur ready to break the skin. Be honest with them and tell them what you're really thinking and feeling. Okay, that's the first step because they can help you to start with. We know that it's hard to find those who are mental health professionals in the rural areas, but your family doctor can help connect you in places that you need to go to. Financial stress is not going to go away. Have that discussion with your banker on the front end. Don't try to hide it. If you've talked to your doctor, you have to talk to your banker as well and let them know the position that you are in. Then think about your family. You need to let your spouse know what's happening in your head. They're willing to help you. They're willing to bring solutions forward, but you have to also open up to that person. What are some of the signs that we can be seeing in our spouses, our parents, our siblings who farm? Have they changed their rapid mood swings as of late? Do you see them being short tempered? Something has changed in their personality. Do you see them spending more time alone? Farming is a lonely occupation. We do a lot by ourselves. But is it becoming more than that? Are they giving things away that would normally not fit their personality? That would be an item that meant a lot to them. They'd want to keep. Is the overall upkeep of their farms falling apart where they're not able to financially take care of it, but they've also just sort of given up. That's the time to take someone aside, sit in the buddy seat of that combine, reach across the fence, or sit on a stack of hay bales and literally ask, are you okay? Tell me how you're feeling. I've noticed some things. Make it open ended. Make those questions positive to them that you're not trying to tear them down, but certainly that you care and you want to hear. We are seeing training going on to spot those types of signs and share resources not only in rural clergy, in grain merchandizers, bankers, equipment salesmen. And those people are suffering too. It's not just the farmer, it's everybody associated with it.

[Yeager] Oh, because in some of those positions, they feel the pressure because it's from someone up above them. And that is not something that they can locally handle. I want to figure out, I need to figure out how the best way to say this. Sure, there is a group of people that though everything that you said about that, there's more diagnosis and there's more of that. They'll say that I'm not going to do anything because I'm not soft, or we've become soft or we've, that was never a problem when I was your age. Why is it a problem now? You've become this talk to that group of people.

[Readel] There are those that aren't going to change their minds. Okay? It's like having a troll and social media. Someone is not going to change their mind no matter what you want them to think. But you can continue to try, and then you can reach those who do need help or are willing to listen. Because the more examples that you give, the better. Jeff Winton is a dairy farmer in western New York. He had a nephew die by suicide. He went out and started an organization called Rural minds.org, specifically to share resources with folks who need them when it comes to their mental health. If you are someone saying, just toughen it up because you're going to be fine. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But putting those resources in front of them, they'll start to see it more often and realize this is a bigger problem and we have to take the stigma away. We really do, because the reason you turn in yourself, take yourself to a clinic for help with your heart is no different than when you need to take yourself to a clinic or help with your head.

[Yeager] And that's something, Bridgette, that you and I growing up, that was not talked about. I never heard it. I know, and I love my parents, but that's not anything that it was stressful in the 80s, in the 70s for us. And I know it probably was for you. And there's some there's like, we made it through. You'll make it through. We also can't have that mindset either.

[Readel] You know, when my dad sold the dairy cows in 1988, I was 15 years old, I did not know the words anxiety and depression. But I do know that is the oldest of four kids. We get off the school bus every day, and my dad had some free time because he wasn't milking cows, he was still feeding these animals. We still have crops to combine, but he wasn't milking. And so dad would do the laundry every day. And with four kids, he did a lot of laundry. But I realized that my dad was depressed. Now I get it. And that was his way of filling that gap, as he could take care of us in a different way. So I encourage people when I speak to make sure they see who's carrying their laundry, who's doing that for them, because that person probably needs you to reach out and acknowledge that they are hurting and that you want to help. You want to listen.

[Yeager] That's a great hook. The laundry, I mean, and that's and and that's just what you were just talking about, the example that is the, the personal example. And we can all I'm sitting here now going through my head about it. Yeah. You have this, this other, this broadcast life we kind of talked about in the first episode in the radio show, but you also have this podcast, rural. Well, and this is, we'll call it international.

[Readel] It really is. So I had the opportunity to take a class called First aid, mental health training, mental health first aid training. I think I said that backwards, but when you do a mental health first aid training, you get put in touch with a lot of folks in your region who are wanting to do the same thing. They want to be there for those in their communities, especially rural communities. Through that, I met some other ladies who had an interest in talking about how we can help others around us. That conversation, you know, keep pulling that thread. More and more people come into it pretty soon. I met Lauren Renwick. She is in southern Ontario. She's a sheep farmer. She's a foster mom. She does a lot of things, which is also a licensed therapist. And she said, look, I really feel compelled to share what we know and try to get help to people. And so we devised a plan to start The Rural Well, which is a podcast focusing on mental health for farmers, ranchers and our rural communities. And every episode, we want to talk about the resources that are in front of us. And I use the term resources a lot, but it's as easy as checklists as websites that you can go to phone numbers, people you can call and ask, we want to put that right in front of you in a very, very direct manner so that if there is a piece of help that you are looking for, we can get you connected to it.

[Yeager] Do you get the sense that we need to have those types of resources just as much as we need to figure out how to market our grain? 

[Readel] Absolutely. Every time I speak to a group, I put up the phone number for the agri stress hotline, and I have folks programing in their phones. Maybe you need it. Maybe somebody you know needs it, but you should have it the same way. You have your banker, your grain merchandizer. You know, the truck driver who's Holland, who's doing custom hauling for you. Whatever the case may be, that's an important number.

[Yeager] What is the number? Do you have it?

[Readel] Of course I have it. Let me go get that for you.

[Yeager] I just always have to have that number go by. We need to do that. So with Lauren in Ontario, I guess the easy thing. Well, I'm stalling as you look for the answer to my question. There you have it.

[Readel] Now I do. The agri stress hotline is (833) 897-2474. The thing I love about calling this is it's answered by people in ag. So if you call a mental health hotline, sometimes you get folks that answer and say, oh, you're worried about the livestock market, you're worried about your cattle and your livelihood, maybe you should take a few days off and take a vacation. And every farmer out there with 300 had a cow calf pairs. They canceled. What am I going to go on vacation? But with the Agri Stress helpline, they will actually be folks who understand your situation because they're an ag, too.

[Yeager] As long as I don't volunteer to run, you know, do chores for that time, they're not doing that, are they?

[Readel] Don't we wish that would be the easiest solution?

[Yeager] Oh, that'd be great. You could.

[Readel] I don't have that one yet.

[Yeager] But with your partner being in Canada and I know in Ontario, it's probably farther south than you are. But it's a totally different country in a few aspects. But are farmers totally different in the two countries that the two of you now know?

[Readel] I feel like Canadian farmers are ahead of us, but they've removed a lot of the stigma from talking about mental health, and they do it more freely. And they also see more governmental funding to focus on their rural areas than what we have here in the U.S, but that's great if they can show us the path forward, let's follow it. Let's use that to our advantage. But farmers are farmers everywhere. They are looking for solutions, and they might want to ask you for a little bit of time so that they can share their concerns. And then they might ask you what you're doing in the fertilizer market this year. You find you well, now you're going down hydrous. What are you going to do?

[Yeager] Well, that sounds like you're, sounds like you've ended up on Market Plus with us. That's fantastic. That's really good. When you have these discussions, is there ever a theme besides economics that appears?

[Readel] The theme economics is the overarching theme. There's some subcategories underneath it. One of them is that multi-generational farm trying to keep that flowing. Oftentimes the family stress, because there may be divorces, there may be a sudden death in the family due to an illness or just, you know, a heart attack or whatever. And all of a sudden you've got this big upset and what was a smooth, flowing hierarchy within the farm. And that's changed. I think sometimes if there are accidents such as traumatic brain injuries that can change a person's focus and feelings and really lead to some of that depression and heightened anxiety as well. So economics seems to be the overall category, but there's all these other things that happen underneath that as well.

[Yeager] And the reason I ask that is for this, because last year at this time, August, July, August, early September, the prices were where they're at now. They were low. And there was this I had some flashing lights coming on with friends to say, you got to start thinking about, we're going to start doing some mental health things. When you have discussions with farmers. But this prices rallied, a dollar and corn and $2 in beans is not going to solve the problem. It might be a Band-Aid. In fact, it might causes more harm in the long run. Right? Am I too crazy to say that?

[Readel] I don't think so. If we think about how the economics on a farm work, you know, that dollar always moves forward. I've often thought farming is probably the greatest money laundering situation that you've ever had, right? Because that money comes in and immediately flows right back out to somebody else. And I think that, those rallies give you momentary hope. But first of all, you and I both understand that there needs to be a more solid plan for money. And we've got to think, even though this is the way you've always done it, let's think about how we can change that, how we can make more steady income instead of some of those highs and lows that just fall within the market. There are some farmers who are really good at marketing, and I couldn't be more proud. But there's a lot of us that say we're good at marketing, and we're just kind of sweeping it under the rug because we're just doing what we always did. So, you know, taking care of your farm has to be, you know, an important focus. And frankly, this is not easy to hear, but I think we have to consider sometimes if our farm is too big to get our arms around, if we can't get everything accomplished and it's stressing us out, do we give up a little bit of land? Do we change over an enterprise? Have we really figured out what the dollars and cents mean that is profitable and is it worth our stress? What's the ROI on your health?

[Yeager] Well, we, I think we find it in business. Everything. You know, consolidation. It's happened in agriculture. It happened in the airline industry, the soft drinks industry, the food, you name it. That consolidation, because we think that is the path forward. But it's in sounds like an agriculture that isn't necessarily always the path forward.

[Readel] It is very interesting to watch, as you mentioned, younger folks coming in and they're thinking, you know, I need something that's more manageable. Or maybe I have brought in this side operation that I consider more profitable. There's a gentleman out there who, Brian Reisinger, he's from Wisconsin.

[Yeager] And he is a past guest on this podcast. Yes.

[Readel] There you go. And Brian's book really talks about what are the true changes I have to make to make my family happy, to make myself happy, to still have a viable farm. But what's it going to look like? It can be different. And I think Brian does a nice job of bringing those questions forward. We should always look to change our operations and make them better. Maybe I'll.

[Yeager] Go ahead. I'll go back to another past guest who talks about the commodity, treadmill that we always seem to be on. We think we have to be producing one of two, maybe three crops, when in reality there might be that fourth and fifth that makes us different and might just make us profitable is I do you agree with that thought?

[Readel] Well, I live in North Dakota, where we have to have crop diversity. Yeah, we're there. And I do think that that has helped us out in a number of places where farmers do find those different markets, whether it's a barley, canola, etc.. I'll be honest, I never saw soybean until I went to college. That's the kind of diversity we had at the time. And it's continued, right? We're still seeing some very unique things raised here.

[Yeager] So you're saying you didn't have to walk beans growing up like I did?

[Readel] Nope, nope. But I don't recommend walking a sunflower field. Gets a little.

[Yeager] No no.

[Readel] Crazy in there. No.

[Yeager] Yeah. No. That's, you win, you win. You get that one. When we talk about the treadmills and we talk about the thing, I guess I'm going to tie it back to the very beginning of our conversation with the under 30 producer. If you want to say Gen Z, they do question things. Do we think that they are going to be the ones that question, maybe we don't need to be bigger, and that's maybe where some of this is going to come from.

[Readel] I think they're going to question it. I think they're going to do it differently. And I am so excited when some of them are willing to say, you know what? I am stressed out. I am seeing a counselor and they are not ashamed because they don't have to be. They are taking care of their operation and themselves and their families, and that's commendable.

[Yeager] Do you? I read there's things that I read where it's somebody who mentions I go to therapy every week or I go to I do this when people just openly say that, that's helpful, right? When people say when you see someone you see, you're like, oh, they have it all together. Hair's all fine. You know, the ties. Yeah. No, they're just as messed up as I am.

[Readel] They gave you permission to do that. You can do that too. And it's okay. And in today's world, is it perfect to use telehealth when you want to do that for your a counselor session with a mental health professional, it might not be perfect, but when you live three hours from that professional, you got to take it. And it's not easy to park on a hill in a pasture to get good phone service. But it's worth it. And I just want to encourage people to consider that. Put that in as part of your day.

[Yeager] And you mentioned the whole, you know, the driving, whatever there are, if you are close enough to that professional, there are some farmers who they know everybody's pickup truck, of course. Hey, I saw Jimmy at the doctor's office. Wonder what's going on. They don't want to be seen everywhere.

[Readel] I spoke to a group in Minnesota just two years ago, and a lady approached me afterwards. She said, I am just finishing my degree as a licensed therapist, and I want to help people, but I am afraid to open up a storefront for that very reason is people are going to drive by and see a vehicle and say, what are you doing at the counselor's office? You okay? She said what she actually was considering was bringing back house calls where she was the one who is mobile and went to see folks because it reduced the stigma and allowed them to have that comfort level in their farm shop or riding in the tractor, and they would talk to her.

[Yeager] She could get in that buddy seat that you mentioned.

[Readel] She could, and she'd be really good at it.

[Yeager] And if she gets a white half ton pickup truck, she'll look like every other salesperson.

[Readel] Everybody else out there.

[Yeager] It won't stand out. All right, Bridgette, as we wrap up here, let's do one last thing. When it comes to farmer mental health, are there things? I mean, we've talked about talking. We've talked about asking for help. Maybe I'm a reader. Maybe I'm a podcast listener. So I've got The Rural Well, as an option, how often does it come out?

[Readel] The Rural Well comes out twice a month. We come out on the first and the 15th of every month. So people are able to pick that up and listen. And there's about a year's worth of the series there. If you are thinking to yourself, what's it really like inside the head of someone who's concerned? Is it the same thoughts I'm having? I recommend a book by Carly Jo Mertens. She is a young woman. She's a farm woman from Milbank, South Dakota. Her book is called Groupie Sack Vacation because Carly recognized the signs of depression and PTSD, and she signed herself into a psychiatric care unit in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. And her book is her journal of what it was like before, during and after her care. And I think it's really eye opening to those who don't understand or want to fight some of the stigma. Carly Jo's book is excellent. Rural minds.org again started by dairy farmer Jeff Winton. You can find that online. The suicide helpline is 988. Never be afraid to dial that for you or someone that you care about to get them immediate help with professionals, and there's so many places locally that we can think of, whether it's through our health care systems or clinics and our family doctors who will step up to help us.

[Yeager] Is there any time of year that's busier or not as busy in this industry, or.

[Readel] I don't think that's here anymore. You know, you and I probably got started in about the same time, and I always felt like wheat harvest was a little bit of a downtime because people weren't calling me for recommendations. I wasn't out on the road quite as much. But that's changed because we harvest crops all sorts of different times. There's not a slow time, but we can make it an enjoyable time. Doesn't have to always be, a marathon.

[Yeager] And when you're by yourself out in the cab or in the truck cab driving, there are things you can listen to that nobody else has to know. You can let that, that podcast go about bison football and discussing their offensive line woes. You can let that go for a day.

[Readel] You could, you know what? And I would say, if you're listening to Market to Market, you can follow it up with The Rural Well, because they're alphabetically right behind each other in your podcast lineup.

[Yeager] Very good. Bridgette, thank you so very much for all your time and your insight and everything that you're doing. I appreciate you making time for us.

[Readel] This was so much fun. Thanks for asking.

[Yeager] Again. My thanks to Bridgette for those discussions. That was part two. Part one. Go back, listen to that, or just join us next Tuesday for another installment of this podcast. Enjoy them all. We enjoy you and we thank you. We'll see you next time.