Iowa Attorney General Candidates Brenna Bird & Nate Willems

[KAY HENDERSON] Two candidates, two different views about the office of Attorney General. We'll talk with Brenna Bird and Nate Willems about their plans on this edition of Iowa Press.

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[ANNOUNCER] For decades, Iowa Press has brought you political leaders and newsmakers from across Iowa and beyond. Celebrating more than 50 years on statewide Iowa PBS, this is the Friday, October 9th edition of Iowa Press. Here is Kay Henderson.

[HENDERSON] The attorney general is essentially the state's lawyer. The Office of Attorney General provides legal advice and support to state agencies and state officials. It also represents the state of Iowa in court and other legal proceedings. Our two guests here would like to be Iowa's attorney general for the next four years. Let me introduce them. Brenna Bird is a Republican and the current attorney general. She's running for a second term. She previously has served as a county attorney. Nate Willems is the Democratic nominee. He is a labor attorney and a former state legislator. He served two terms in the Iowa House. Candidates, welcome to Iowa Press.

[BRENNA BIRD] Thank you. 

[NATE WILLEMS] Thank you.

[HENDERSON] Joining our conversation today is Erin Murphy. He is the Des Moines bureau chief for the Gazette in Cedar Rapids.

[ERIN MURPHY] Brenna Bird we'll start with you this morning when you ran for this office four years ago, you told voters that suing the Biden administration would be a top priority. Looking at your reelection, what would be your number one priority for a second term?

[BIRD] Well, as Attorney General, I do enforce the law and the Constitution and stand up for Iowans. So, I did sue the Biden administration was able to sue them and get the year round E15 that Iowans are entitled to under the law. Stand up for our Second Amendment rights. And as I look forward to a second term, I am looking forward to continuing my work with our cold case unit. That's a unit that I started in my office to look at the over 400 unsolved homicides around Iowa. I know as a prosecutor, how important it is that these families know we never give up on the search for justice. There's no statute of limitations on murder. And I want every family and community that's been impacted to know we don't give up. The first case we solved was 37 years old. So, it tells us the importance of not giving up. I'm also using the money that we got from our victory against Facebook and Instagram, that Meta settlement. We're going to use that to start a special victims unit that will help us to focus on heinous crimes, especially those against children, whether it's sexual exploitation of children, child molesters, human trafficking cases that make a real difference all across Iowa. I want to make sure that we're working with county attorneys and that we are prosecuting those cases. I'll also continue my work to stop the scammers and the robocalls. We have sued the Bitcoin ATMs and had great success there. We have two cases against the two biggest companies, and one of them has already declared bankruptcy.

[MURPHY] All right. Nate Willems you said during your campaign a top priority would be suing employers for wage theft. Why has that been such a core of your campaign?

[WILLEMS] Well, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be on Iowa Press. I've been a labor lawyer for almost 20 years. I represent Iowans who've been cheated, hospital workers whose wages were paid, late, custodians whose jobs were wrongfully outsourced, police officers denied the pay raises they'd been promised. I've won for them. That's the job of the attorney general to be the people's lawyer. That's not happening right now. Brenna Bird looks out for political insiders and corporate polluters. I want to refocus the office on helping regular Iowans.

[HENDERSON] Brenna Bird, about a week ago, a little more than a week ago, you were in the White House, standing in the Oval Office as President Trump announced that there was a proposed steel plant going to be built in southeast Iowa. Did you have a role in negotiating the memorandum of understanding that Governor Reynolds struck with Mesabi Metallics?

[BIRD] Well, the governor certainly gets credit for bringing the biggest steel plant ever built in America to Iowa. I was there with our delegation because I know how important it is to southeast Iowa to have those jobs. They are good paying, family supporting steel, working jobs, and for Iowa to have the biggest steel plant in the United States, it's good for America. It's good for Iowa. It's good for American manufacturing that we don't have to rely on Chinese steel. So, it is huge for Iowa. It's huge for southeast Iowa. And that's why I was there to show my strong support.

[HENDERSON] Debi Durham, who is the director of the Iowa Economic Development Authority, said that her agency has hired an outside counsel to review and process the deal when it comes to fruition. Will your office have a role in overseeing the deal as well?

[BIRD] Yeah, the way it works with my office is we stand at the ready to help all of the departments of state government. Sometimes there can be a specialized type of legal advice that's needed for a very specific matter. And in those situations, outside counsel is hired. But we certainly serve the Economic Development Authority, help them with their legal work, litigation advice, whatever that might be. So, we stand at the ready to help with the steel plant.

[HENDERSON] Nate Willems if you're elected, what do you foresee your role would be in overseeing the nearly $1.4 billion incentive package for this plant?

[WILLEMS] Well, you have to enforce promises. I mean, if the state of Iowa is going to give such a generous tax incentive package to this employer in exchange for the promises that they're making with respect to jobs being created, high quality jobs, good paying jobs, then yeah, it's absolutely the attorney general's job to ensure that they are doing what they say they will do, because there is a lot of skepticism. I mean, we want these jobs. These are good paying jobs. I've spent a lot of time in Lee County, but you do hear concern from people across the state as to whether this will come to fruition, as they say it will. So, the attorney General needs to be vigilant in ensuring that the promises made by this company are carried out.

[HENDERSON] So, what is the genesis of the skepticism? Is that because the company went through bankruptcy about a decade ago -- what happened in Minnesota,?

[WILLEMS] There could be any number of reasons for that. And simply the size of this incentive package dwarfs anything the state of Iowa has previously done. I mean, that fertilizer plant in Weaver, I think in 2012 was maybe, what, 10% the size of this incentive package. So, yes, the attorney general's office simply needs to be looking out for taxpayers to make sure that this company lives up to the promises that they've made to the people of Iowa.

[HENDERSON] Brenna Bird do you have concerns about the company's financial background?

[BIRD] Well, the way that the legislature put the incentive package together is the company has to meet benchmarks each year before a tax credit is released. So, it was written with an eye towards accountability, which certainly makes sense. I think that it is a large package, but this is also the largest steel mill to ever be built in America. And they chose Iowa to build that mill, and they chose southeast Iowa. These will be good paying jobs. The average wages are over $43 an hour with good benefits. Those are just the kind of jobs that I want to bring to Iowa.

[MURPHY] I want to talk about a couple of fraud investigations that are taking place in the attorney General's office right now. Brenna Bird your office has prosecuted roughly a half dozen election fraud charges alleging Iowans improperly voted in recent elections. As the last time that I reported on the story, anyway, is only one of those had resulted in a conviction. Why have these cases proven so difficult to prosecute, do you think?

[BIRD] Yeah, well, the election integrity issue is a big difference between myself and Nate. When Nate was in the state legislature, he voted against voter ID, and voter ID is the way that we can make sure that when someone goes in to vote, they are who they say they are and that that is a legal vote. No one's legal vote should be canceled out by an illegal vote. And non-citizens are not allowed to vote in an Iowa election. They're not allowed to vote in a federal election either. It's a felony under Iowa law, and we should do everything we can to ensure election integrity. Voter ID matters. No one's vote should be canceled out, no matter who they vote for.

[MURPHY] And then and Nate, I'll ask you about voter ID, but then to the charges and the cases that are ongoing now, like I said, just only one has resulted in conviction. Why, in your view, have these been so difficult to prosecute to get a conviction?

[BIRD] Well, as a prosecutor, I'm not going to comment on cases that are still awaiting trial. I think the evidence should come out in a court of law, and we want to uphold everyone's constitutional rights. But I believe it's important that we pursue election integrity because there is no acceptable amount of cheating in an Iowa election. And when law enforcement make a case and they show us that someone has voted illegally, and we can prove that to a jury, we will prosecute that case in a court of law, and we will hold people accountable, because Iowans should know that our elections are secure. We do have good elections and good auditors across all the counties in Iowa doing their best to uphold the law. But when cheating happens, or when someone votes who is not supposed to vote and that is an illegal vote, they will be held to account.

[MURPHY] Nate Willems, And feel free to address the voter ID law that came across when you were in the legislature, You just heard Attorney General Bird say that no amount of voter fraud is acceptable. Do you agree?

[WILLEMS] Yes, I do. I mean, I'm running to enforce Iowa law, not to change Iowa law. And so even one instance of voter fraud is one too many. But as you pointed out, one is precisely the number of convictions that Brenna Bird office has been able to obtain. So, I mean, we need to figure out what is going wrong. Why is this been so challenging for this office? I mean, in Johnson County recently, the state sought to get a mistrial, asked the court to grant a mistrial of their own case. And then here this week, we have an acquittal of an election interference case down in Montgomery County. I mean, you had the I mean, the situation where former Congressman Steve King, who used to work for claiming that that was a lawfare or a politicized prosecution. We really need to dig in and see what has been going wrong. Are they bringing cases without the facts to support them, or is there just been error with the way the attorneys have prepped or prosecuted these cases? It needs to be looked into thoroughly.

[BIRD] I'd like to address that a little bit if I could. 

[MURPHY] Sure.

[BIRD] I have experience as a county attorney and as a prosecutor. I have tried criminal cases to a jury, cases of all different kinds. And Nate, you have never prosecuted a criminal case in your life. Not once. You've never worked with law enforcement, a victim, never tried a criminal case to a jury. And here the important thing about election integrity is fairness. It's about making sure that our laws are upheld. And we have doubled the number of prosecutors in our office to make sure that we are there to help counties with the cases that they have as well. Nate lacks that experience. He doesn't have it. He won't be able to do the job.

[WILLEMS] Can I address.

[MURPHY] Yeah. Address that and well, and then I have a follow up, address that first.

[WILLEMS] I mean that's not true. I as a lawyer represent police officers all across the state. The AG's office has a collection of some of the best prosecutors in the state of Iowa. Career lawyers who worked for under Tom Miller, who worked under Brenna Bird and who will work in my office. And they have my complete support. But I've represented police officers. I won the largest ever wage increase for police officers in Carter Lake. I stopped the Clinton County supervisors from doubling the health insurance premium for their deputies and jailers. I've represented police officers who were retaliated against on the job for standing up for their legal rights. So, from my perspective, having, you know, sitting in the room with a client lawyer relationship with police officers all across the state, I think that's an invaluable experience for any attorney general.

[MURPHY] And then real quick, before we need to move on. So, circling back to the voter fraud cases, you talked about the needing to look at those and why more haven't resulted in convictions, but would your office continue that work?

[WILLEMS] Yeah. I mean, so long as you just you have to make sure that you have facts that will support obtaining a conviction. I mean, you don't want to be bringing charges if you don't think that you can make the case.

[MURPHY] And AG Bird, the Medicaid fraud task force that you lead, is preparing its final report. What sorts of recommendations do you expect or hope to see in that?

[BIRD] Yeah. Well, I've been chairing the Medicaid Fraud Task Force and working with task force members as we hear, what can we do to make sure that in Iowa, we are improving our efforts to stop fraud? We know there is no acceptable amount of fraud, and taxpayer dollars should be dealt with carefully, and people should not get them who are cheating. We want to make sure, too, that the Medicaid program can be there when people need it. So, we have been working, we've heard a lot of information, and we've gotten some public input as well. We've heard that the Iowa Medicaid fraud system is doing some things very well. It's very efficient. We've also seen some areas for improvement, like the ability of Iowans to bring tips or other information that they might have so that we can proactively investigate that Medicaid fraud. As attorney general, fraud is important that we go after that, that we root it out. That's why I'm glad that we were able to get five fraud prosecutors funded by the federal government that can work across Iowa, working on these Medicaid fraud cases, other types of fraud cases, working in conjunction with federal prosecutors and state prosecutors.

[MURPHY] And they kind of similar, if elected, would your office continue this work?

[WILLEMS] Yes, absolutely. I mean, when I was in the legislature, I voted to create the Iowa False Claims Act, which gives whistleblowers incentive to come forward. But, you know, we've had people investigating fraud for years, and it's been underfunded. That's been a chronic problem. We have a real problem with Medicaid, Medicaid providers in Iowa right now, particularly in the sphere of nursing homes and long term care facilities. So, I mean, Brenna, one of the first things she did was to sue the Biden administration to prevent safe staffing standards from going into effect in long term care facilities and nursing homes, many of which take Medicaid patients through the state of Iowa. And we have a real problem with not enough staffing, with people getting, you know, going to the hospital as of as a result of neglect. So, I really don't understand when the state of Iowa has such a challenge taking care of seniors and vulnerable populations and nursing homes, why the attorney general of Iowa would sue to prevent safe staffing standards from going into effect.

[BIRD] I mean, I certainly like to address that. As a as someone who is from rural Iowa, and I have had family members who needed that kind of nursing care that the Biden mandates that were out there would have shut down many rural nursing homes. And one of the things that is so important is that when we have a family member that has to go into a nursing home and needs that level of care, we want to make sure it can be close to home, close to their neighbors, close to family members. I remember when my grandma went into the nursing home, my grandpa was able to go and see her every single day and spend time with her because she was close, not 1 or 2 hours away where a bed was open. I certainly believe we absolutely have to keep people safe in nursing homes and hold those bad nursing homes accountable. We also need to make sure that rural Iowans aren't forced to drive 2 or 3 hours just to find a place for their loved one. They want to maintain that connection, and it's so important, both for the senior who's in the home, but also all of our family who love them.

[WILLEMS] Could I respond?

[MURPHY] Very quickly because we do need to keep moving on.

[WILLEMS] My father in law had a severe brain surgery that did not go well, left him unable to speak or walk. The facility that he went to was a dumpster fire. My wife was there as often as she could, essentially doing the job for that facility, taking care of her dad, but she could not be there all the time. As a result of neglect, he developed an infection which led to the ER, and he never left that hospital. And that story is all too common across Iowa right now. So, I mean, Brenna, you can offer that explanation, if you like, to my wife or others who've lost loved ones as a result of patient neglect. But if you do, you may want to stand back a little bit. 

[MURPHY] We have we did hear from hospital, including on this show from nursing home leaders who said that that rule would have made it extremely difficult for them to stay fully staffed and keep their doors open. Do you not think their word for that?

[WILLEMS] It's a profitable industry, Erin. I mean, it's not a nonprofit. These are for profit companies that are just all too often not providing adequate staffing to take care of seniors and our most vulnerable people across the state.

[BIRD] And Biden's mandate would have made everything worse, not better. It wouldn't have addressed the problems of a nursing home that is neglecting people.

[HENDERSON] Let's move on. We have a lot of farm foreclosures in the state. They're increasing during the farm crisis. State officials took some steps to give forbearance to people going through the foreclosure process to maybe avoid foreclosure. In the end, Nate Willems, as attorney general, would you recommend steps to protect farmers that are on the financial brink?

[WILLEMS] Going back to the 1980s, the legislature in Iowa has been proactive in putting steps in place to certainly slow down any process for, you know, a person farmer losing their farm. And absolutely, I mean, I would be happy to work with the legislature if there are any tweaks that are needed to the law to put forbearance provisions in place for farmers who are facing a difficult couple of years right now.

[HENDERSON] Brenna Bird.

[BIRD] Yeah, well, I was born and raised on a farm and my brother is a seventh generation farmer. I'm hearing from farmers all over Iowa about how tough the ag economy is right now. And that's something that hits close to my heart in my office. There's a number of things we can do. You know, you mentioned forbearance, which is something that the legislature could take on or other policy makers. I have a Farm and Freedom Division in my office, and we have worked to defend agriculture and to make things better for farmers. So, one of the things I think would really help is year round E15 to help to open up new markets for corn, cheaper gas at the pump. It's good for Iowa. It's better for all of us that buy gas. I've also been looking at some problems in the ag industry where we have consolidation and a lack of competition. Just had a big win against Corteva on behalf of farmers and the anti-competitive practices that they were engaging with crop management tools. We're also looking at other areas, including key inputs like fertilizer, for example, seeds, other areas like that, because we've seen so much consolidation in the ag industry, we need to keep an eye on that, investigate and then if we find that people are violating our antitrust laws that are engaging in anti-competitive behavior, that that hurts farmers and hurts Iowa, we're going to go after them.

[HENDERSON] Nate Willems typically, antitrust cases are tried in federal courts. Do you think they should be tried in state courts?

[WILLEMS] Well, we do have anti-competitive laws in Iowa that that to some degree mirror, but the federal law, but some degree not. I mean, traditionally, though, you know, the AG's office would work with the Federal Trade Commission and federal partners to, you know, this is this is absolutely an area where I think it's appropriate for the AG's office to be involved. And it's probably an area where it's appropriate for AG's across the country to, to work together. I mean, you know, the Iowa Attorney General's office is unlikely to have more than a couple of bonafide antitrust lawyers in house. So, I think it is this is an area where it is appropriate to work with other states on behalf of Iowans.

[HENDERSON] About three minutes left, and we have something about on threes.

[MURPHY] Yeah. Actually, I wanted to ask about the you mentioned the multi-state lawsuits at the at the top. And there's you mentioned the one with the social media company Meta. There's also one that the AG's office is overseeing regarding opioid manufacturers. Nate Willems to you first on this one, would you take any of those settlement distributions in a different direction than the current AG's office has been doing? Put putting those resources towards programs that the current office is not?

[WILLEMS] I mean, I don't think it's a matter of the allocation of the resources. I think it's a question of making sure the resources get to where they're intended in a timely manner. I mean, during the opioid settlement, I think AG bird's office was very slow to get the money out to the providers, the intended recipients. I mean, we need to make sure -- the attorney general's office is not running a bank here. We need to get the money, the settlement money to the appropriate people sooner rather than later.

[MURPHY] AG Bird, feel free to respond to that. And then also, what plans do you have for a second potential second term for the distribution of those funds?

[BIRD] Yeah. Well, Nate, that's not true. That's not how it works there. The legislature had to authorize HHS and the AG's office to release and distribute those funds, and we certainly have done that with reentry programs for jails, helping homeless people who have substance abuse problems, things that really make a difference in Iowa. And Nate, you're the most liberal lawyer to ever run for attorney general, and it certainly shows to your answers to these questions and the things you choose to attack on. You know, when it comes to using settlement money, and I'm going to use the example of Facebook, Instagram, they were doing bad things on their apps that were hurting teens and kids, causing emotional problems, serious problems. Imagine a teenage girl with a with a plastic surgery photo filter comparing herself to that. I mean, that should never be allowed. It's disgusting. So, we sued them. I sued them in April, we got a big settlement. Some of that money will be used to fund school resource officers, our special victims unit, help for victims who need access to the protections that the Take It Down Act allows, all of those things that will be helping Iowans and kids all across the state. And I'm still suing other social media companies, whether it's TikTok or Roblox, and I will continue to hold them accountable because as a mom, I know how scary it is to know that a predator could have access to your child through an iPad in your own home, and you wouldn't know about it because they don't tell you.

[HENDERSON] You've been shaking your head.

[WILLEMS] Well, I would just respond briefly. I mean, the people who brought the complaints to me about how the AG's office distributed opioid settlements were in fact, legislators, I mean, who were frustrated with the pace of the, with the speed. But, I mean, I do want to give Brenna's office some credit for joining the other 47 other AG's in taking on Meta. That is important work. I am a father as well. I have three teenage daughters and protecting them, keeping them safe is a top priority for me. This is a dynamic space where you have companies that you've never heard of 5 or 10 years ago, offering services or products you never thought would exist. And so, it does require vigilance moving forward in the AG's office to keep our kids safe across Iowa.

[HENDERSON] Well, I'm going to be vigilant here about the time because we are out of time for this conversation. Thanks to both of you for sharing your views with our viewers. 

[BIRD] Thank you.

[WILLEMS] My pleasure.

[HENDERSON] This is part of a series of conversations we're having with candidates for state executive office here on Iowa Press. In the few weeks remaining until Election Day, we'll welcome candidates for Treasurer, Secretary of State and State Auditor. If you missed last week, you may have seen you can go online to watch the candidates for Secretary of Agriculture discuss their views at iowapbs.org. And we want to remind you that there are two upcoming Iowa Press Debates. Next Wednesday, October 14th, we'll question candidates for Congress from the fourth district. And then on Wednesday, October 21st, a debate between the two candidates for governor. Both Iowa Press Debates will be starting at 7 p.m. You can watch them live on air or online at iowapbs.org. For everyone here at Iowa PBS, thanks for watching today.

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[ANNOUNCER] Funding for Iowa Press was provided by Friends, the Iowa PBS Foundation.

[ANNOUNCER] The Bob and Doreen Sheppard Family, proud supporters of educational programing seen only on Iowa PBS.

[ANNOUNCER] Banking in Iowa goes beyond transactions. Banks work to help people and small businesses succeed. And Iowa banks are committed to building confident banking relationships. Iowa banks, your partner through it all.