5th Generation Cattle Producer Talks about Hurdles New Producers Face

Will Harris, White Oak Pastures: "Sooner or later. I think that since my dad industrialized this farm post World War two, the space that he lived in, raising calves and shipping them was pretty good. If he did well, I think that that space economically has tightened and tightened and tightened and tightened until it's not much fun anymore. And, you know, we got four big packers in this country that packed, what, 80%. And I know the number is I think it's about right. It's about right. We're in you know the cattlemen out here in the field raising calves is in. We've worked ourselves into position where we can just be squeezed so easy and so hard. And I think that's why the the calf cow numbers in this country alone and they've been since World War two. Is that right? 50 to 50 maybe. I think that and you know in a record high. But the numbers are not going up much. And I think it's because of that situation. I've said and the people have just been squeezed to the point that they don't want to do it anymore. Raising cattle is an incredibly capital intensive business. Land or herd, etc. you know, the you know, the gas station period. Still 283 days. I don't care what you do. 283 days. And then you won't have a marketable product for two years after that edible marketable problem. So I think it's just become easier and easier for subsequent generations to say, you know, I'm just not going to do any more. Yeah, I'm going to do it. And the demand for land."

Paul Yeager:" It's hard not to sell something that's profitable into the system right now. If you have it, this is going to be a little while right before this stabilizes. And the consumer doesn't have to hear the sidelines of high prices and beef. Right. This is not going to happen any this is not going to get solved anytime soon, is it?"

Will Harris, White Oak Pastures: "I'm amazed that we hadn't opened the borders of infiltration of beef. And I knew I knew the screw fly in Mexico. That's not what I'm talking about. But you know, there's still a lot of countries in the world South America, Australia, New Zealand. You were great that have beef. And I think I think the market's pretty high there. It's not as high as it is here. And I'm surprised that we hadn't seen a lot more. I'm not advocating for it. I'm just talking about what he is. I'm surprised me and seen more of that than we have. And I don't know, I'm not enough of a political student to know why it is and I don't I don't follow that. But I fully expect sooner or later our politicians to get intimidated enough by consumer dissatisfaction that they found a way to bring the price down. And sadly, when that happens, it doesn't usually ease down. It falls like a rock. You know, I mean, I don't know enough about the international. Economy supply to know why that hasn't happened or when it's going to happen, but historically, that's what happens. You know, I can't imagine politicians telling consumers just wait 2 or 3 days and two more years and it'll all be fine."

Paul Yeager: "You've heard that before. Haven't you?" 

Will Harris, White Oak Pastures: "Yeah. That's right. So I mean, I don't have a crystal ball, but I'm just running a new question because I'm just speculating. You know, I guess I guess what I'm saying is what what I do know is that even with these record high prices, we don't see expansion blowing up in this country. I think that's very telling. I don't know, maybe we may never get back to where we have been in terms of producing beef live cattle in this country. And it money didn't seem to make a comeback, certainly high enough to incentivize expansion."

Paul Yeager: "Is there one reason why it hasn't ticked the other way? We haven't expanded. Do you see one?"

Will Harris, White Oak Pastures: "Well, I think the things we've said and and if you are, let's just say you sold some business somewhere and you had a lot of cash and you want to go in the cattle business by the time you buy land and prove it to so that it's a reasonable cattle operation by brood stock and get get it all started and forget it. Fencing and equipment and then wild cattle or higher level men. They may not be all that high. I mean, it may not be clearly is not high enough to incentivize people to do these things. I just said."

Paul Yeager: "The full MTM podcast is available now."