9 questions that could change your life - Josie Rudolphi

Hi. Welcome in to the MtoM Show podcast room here at Iowa PBS. And we are a part of the Market to Market TV show. I'm Paul Yeager. Glad to have you here. We're going to talk about health of the physical, and the emotional and mental health side of agriculture today. Before you hit skip, I need you to listen for just a tiny little bit, we do know that there are challenges that happen both physically you got to worry about the equipment and the tiredness and the fatigue that can set in but you also have to think about your emotions of agriculture, because you can all control the weather, right? That number one stressor is something we will talk about today. And just the stresses in general and some of the research that's being done on multi generations and how they view their own personal health, the stressors in their lives and how it's affecting their families, their parenting style. There's also discussions about younger with adolescents and how they view stress in general. Specifically on the farm as well. We are going to talk to a farm gal herself. Josie Rudolphi grew up in Iowa, but she has studied in Iowa. And she currently works for the University of Illinois in their department of agriculture. But she deals a lot with ag safety and health for the University of Illinois Extension. So we're going to get some of the research that she's doing as part of the Farm Bill and how some of that work could continue if a farm bill would get passed. So the money for the services in several states all across the country, are tied to the latest farm bill. So here you go. We're not going to get too deep into politics on this one, but we are going to give you a number on a way to get assistance, we're going to talk about how you can maybe help fill out some survey information that is going to be in here as well. We'll put that at the end of the podcast as well. In addition to the links here on ways that you can help researchers determine some best courses of action. To help the overall population there's one stat that Josie tells us that really gets my attention right off the top on the percentage of agriculture versus general population when it comes to the mental health side of things. So stay tuned for that. We will talk about the farmer first act which is again, as we mentioned part of that farm bill, if you have any feedback for me sent it to me it Paul.Yeager@IowaPBS.org. Sorry, this intro was really really long, but I just want to talk about setup where we're gonna go here. Also FarmStress.org is a site you can go to for research. Right now, but let's let Josie tell us all right now Josie Rudolphi is our guest this week on the MTom Show podcast. Josie, in the Corn Belt there's a lot of people itching to plant. Are you one of them?

Josie Rudolphi: Oh, my heart says yes. My head says wait. Right? We're not gonna we're not gonna jeopardize any insurance claims or anything like that. So, and we have a planter that's not quite ready. And a couple other things that need to get done first, but the early spring certainly has us thinking about it.

[Yeager]  Moisture wise, you said earlier, you could use the moisture, how dry is it?

[Rudolphi]  It feels very dry. Concerningly dry, I would say.

[Yeager]  That's always, that's a whole nother stress that I didn't even really want to get into. But we will in a moment. So you are a farm person at heart who left the farm to do some academics. And now you're doing both how is that what you always thought you do?

[Rudolphi]  It's never what I thought I would do. But looking back, I was never positive. I knew I wanted to be involved in agriculture. And got really interested in farm safety and didn't realize it was something I could do a graduate degree in and maybe get paid to work in. So I'm very much living the dream right now.

[Yeager]  What does that mean? I mean, you're defining it as you roll clearly, but in your head when people say what do you do Josie? 

[Rudolphi]  Yeah, I say I work to protect people who work in agriculture. So we know it's an incredibly hazardous occupation. We know you're seven times more likely to die in agriculture than any other type of work. And so my goal is to really keep the people who are producing food safe and healthy.

[Yeager]  And that means physical and mental. Right? Absolutely. Is there one that takes precedent for you? 

[Rudolphi]  Right now? Definitely. So since about 2017, I've really been focused in the farm stress and mental health space. There's been a lot of conversations around the experience that farmers have the sort of very unique stressors that they experience. And unfortunately, the really high rates of suicide and increased prevalence of things like anxiety and depression in our population.

[Yeager]  Does it correlate with the general population?

[Rudolphi]  What we see, the research is a, there's some caveats. We don't have perfect research, like we'd love to have a sample that includes farm and nonfarm. But oftentimes we sample farm and we have to make relatively general comparisons to the general population. But what we see is we do surveys of farmers in the Midwest, and that's where I focus a lot of my work. We see farmers experience, in our sample, we might see like 70, or even, like 75% meet the criteria for depression. Whereas in the general population, we might see closer to 20-22%. So we're seeing a much higher or more prevalent situations of depression in the farm community.

[Yeager]  Any idea when I'll call that a large chasm? Because 20 to 70, to me, is a huge number. 

[Rudolphi]  Very, yeah, it's quite large. And we, you know, we asked a lot of the research was still really evolving as to how rigorous we're able to be. We often survey, you know, randomly throughout the year. And so we have to take into account that there are these incredibly stressful periods in agriculture. And then there's just a lot happening in agriculture and to farmers, that isn't as common in other sectors of the economy or other types of occupations.

[Yeager]  Back to the comment about the weather, I mean, that is a constant stress that you're like, oh, there's nothing you can do about it. But when your livelihood is extremely tied to it, it really does become a factor, right?

[Rudolphi]  It's huge. I think there's a lot of people who stay up late. Thinking about rain, thinking about moisture, or thinking about getting into the field out of the field, those sorts of things. And you're right, it's something we have absolutely no control over. And that's what makes the occupation really unique, and a little different than some others is that there are a number of characteristics of weather, commodity prices, geopolitical issues, things that are happening nationally, or even globally, that have serious impacts on how productive and profitable a farmer is going to be. And a lot of safety nets don't exist, like they do in some other sorts of occupations.

[Yeager]  Now, you went to universities in farm states, so there's a general understanding of those institutions. But do you think that they're in the community of health? There's a general disdain is not the word but looked down upon? Oh, that's just farmers, it doesn't matter. Does that exist? 

[Rudolphi]  Yeah, I think there's some of that, I think, in rural communities, farmers have really built themselves as highly independent, incredibly stoic, strong, resilient individuals and families. And with that others in the community have often perhaps forgot that they might need resources and services the way others might. And so there has been a bit of a darts of, of services to meet the specific needs of farmers and agricultural communities. And so I'm often met with surprise when I tell people about some of the research and what we're finding people are like, but I thought these people get to work outside, and they're their own boss. And it's so you know, we've really built this occupation to be very romantic and idealistic. And the reality is, it's great to be outside, it's great to work with your hands to have some autonomy, what you're doing. But there are a lot of pressures and forces at play that we have no control over, that are certainly wreaking havoc on our producers.

[Yeager]  It's outside, it's autonomous, no boss, but let's keep going with that description. It's also very isolated. And that, to me, has always been one of those. That's the next sentence in what you describe, is that true?

[Rudolphi]  Absolutely, incredibly isolated, you can spend days or weeks by yourself. We know that it's getting and we know that a lot of the traditional farm community doesn't exist as much anymore. The coffee shops are closing, the places where people used to meet are closing. There's less farmers than ever before. So now you're a little bit more geographically isolated from your nearest neighbor. And we know that it's a little bit more competitive of an industry now. And so you see people that are less likely to confide in their neighbor confide in their, their close friends about what they might be experiencing.

[Yeager]  And your neighbor might be someone who has an off farm job. Absolutely. And does that tie into someone who does the outside, the off-farm job people and we know that's a big part of agriculture right now. Do they have any less stressors? Do we know or do they have? Do they fall into a different category?

[Rudolphi]  They have. They have a little bit of different types of stress. They are challenged a little bit more with time management, right because you gotta keep an off farm job. They got to keep things happening on the farm. on. So it's a lot more trying to balance things. They're also protected because they do have consistent income, and they have health insurance and they have perhaps, access to childcare. And those are things that we know are incredibly stressful for farmers, lack of access to other people and access to other people, you have a place you can go, you can. There's like some shared camaraderie or camaraderie and where you work and you have people who are there to support you.

[Yeager]  When you told your parents you were going to do this role or your family that you were going to do this, what was their reaction? 

[Rudolphi]  You know, I think I mean, they're very excited. They're very proud of me. I think we all will always go into grad school, and you're not entirely sure where you're going to end up. But they're like, so long as it's being paid for, fantastic, like, great for you. And now they've been really supportive. I spent a couple years in central Wisconsin, working in farm stress and mental health, and I'm now at the University of Illinois. So I've been tremendously supportive, no matter where I've been.

[Yeager]  In your health, your health colleagues in this very specific narrow field, are they very similar backgrounds to you? 

[Rudolphi]  A lot of them are, yeah, a lot of them have agricultural ties, which I think is incredibly beneficial and a lot better than others are coming from, from public health or community health, the Family Sciences and I think they bring a really interesting and important perspective. Because sometimes those of us who have been in agriculture are so consumed with this, we often maybe have a very narrow perspective and sort of bring others from other health fields and disciplines into the conversation has been super enlightening.

[Yeager]  Given the geographic areas you just mentioned, Wisconsin, Illinois and Iowa, any difference in agriculture and farmers and producers in what the challenges they face when it comes to mental health? 

[Rudolphi]  Yeah, absolutely. I think my real, my first sort of experiences in farm stress and mental health were certainly in Wisconsin. And so thinking about what dairy was, like in 2017 2018, when that was an industry that was strapped financially, and farmers were really struggling. And so that really, it was really interesting. I hadn't spent a lot of time with dairy, but it was really a great experience to get to talk to those farmers and understand what they're going through. really heartfelt conversations. I mean, it was so impactful. We had a community meetings of sorts, where farmers would come in, and they would just pour their hearts out and talk about Bill cycling and and paying this bill but not this bill every month and working through succession planning with with their children who they really wanted to take over the farm, that they couldn't sell it and have anything for retirement. And so a ton of conversations are moving towards things like the Corn Belt, or closer to it's a lot of conversations about commodity prices, corn prices, specifically, the weather becomes a much bigger factor when you're trying to raise 300 bushel corn. So having a lot of conversations there. But similarly, things about succession planning and retirement and trying to think about what the future of farms will look like. Certainly been top of mind for a lot of people.

[Yeager]  Well, if Market to Market would just give you some good information on a Sunday, things would be better, right?

[Rudolphi]  Well, we are Friday evenings now. That's true. Yeah.

[Yeager]  Yeah. Or Friday afternoon when it's released on YouTube. That's my plug. Sorry. Do you think the farmer in the technology area has changed the way? I mean, because it's easy to text people? And does that help? Allow if there's a trusted friend that some producer might have?

[Rudolphi]  Yeah, I think it absolutely does, it gets, you're able to connect with people further away. There is a little bit more autonomy with a text or a phone call than being face to face. And some people are more comfortable with that. It's a big reason why there's a lot of help lines and chat lines that have come available, realizing that being on the phone, for some people is a lot more comfortable. But it also allows, you know, I think about my college friends, we're sort of dispersed across the state across the Midwest. And we're able to keep up in a group chat, like we probably were able to do 20 years ago, right? We might have seen each other once or twice a year, we still only see each other once or twice a year. But we can be connected constantly and sharing pictures and what we're going through and support is literally at your fingertips if you want it.

[Yeager]  However, the internet on our phones can also make us like the general population play competitive game. I started with the whole are you planting or not? That can also weigh on a farmer. 

[Rudolphi]  Absolutely. And I think yeah, social media can be like the best and the worst in the world. And it's an opportunity to show what you're doing but it becomes very competitive to like how much better you're doing than somebody else. I'm excited to see spaces evolve where people are being able to be a bit more honest about what they might be going through and their experiences. I remember there was a Twitter thread. I think it was in the spring of 2019 when it was just wet and we couldn't get anything done. And somebody said, using a meme, like, tell me how plantings are going, and people were just dropping beams of like, trains on fire or, you know, just the worst possible and it is allowed for everyone to say like, Okay, this isn't great for anybody. Like no one's thriving right now. So let's come together and like, maybe have a laugh over it.

[Yeager]  We try. I mean, yes, I mean that you have to, because otherwise, yeah, you are going to have some other issues to deal with there. If you can't laugh at a current situation. It's like when you break. The planter is broken. You have to kind of laugh about it. Right?

[Rudolphi]  Yeah. Depending on how much it costs. Yeah. Yeah. 

[Yeager]  And don't tell your dad that I said, I'm laughing at his planter. Yeah. Yeah. What's your current biggest academic work that you're doing right now? Or in the world? Yeah.

[Rudolphi]  I have a 50% extension appointment. So I spent a lot of my time out in communities working with extension, not only in Illinois, but across the Midwest. I direct the North Central farm and ranch stress Assistance Center, which is a USDA funded, farm and ranch stress assistance network. So USDA has funded four of these centers around the country. And the North Central Region is 12 states who would consider it like the kind of the classic Midwest, Dakotas over to Ohio and down to Missouri. So with that we are delivering. We're supporting a clearinghouse website, we're supporting various help lines. We're also facilitating some support groups. For farmers, we have colleagues in Nebraska who are running, facilitating support groups for farm workers. And then we're doing a lot of programming. So we are delivering various types of programming to increase the community's capacity to respond to a mental health crisis. We know that rural communities are medically underserved, especially when it comes to mental health care. And so we're helping to increase confidence in skills among non mental health professionals. So they might be able to help a friend, a colleague, a partner. And then in some states, we're actually supporting free professional behavioral health services. So farmers can request vouchers and actually go see a professional behavioral health specialist, usually for three or five sessions, depending on the program.

[Yeager]  Is that tied to annual renewal of funding? Is this eight year plan a 16 year plan? Just to give us a sense of timeline here?

[Rudolphi] I absolutely wish and you should write the farm bill is unfortunately a five year timeline. This funding has been appropriated through the Farm Bill. It was initially the 2018 Farm Bill. And we're kind of obviously all waiting on what the next farm bill will look like this program, the farmers first act is in the next farm bill. So we are incredibly thankful for congressional support. But we're sort of living in this precarious situation like many are, in a year by year state until we do have what hopefully will be a five year five year bill and a five years.

[Yeager]  And then that way, it's not tied to you're not really tied to an administration at this point, then, since it's in the Farm Bill

[Rudolphi]  It had bipartisan support, which is fantastic. I think it's a non-controversial topic. I think a lot of people acknowledge the need for these sorts of services for our farmers and ranchers and agricultural workers.

[Yeager]  And it was 2018, the first year that this was established.

[Rudolphi]  Yes, it was. It was initially proposed for the 2008 Farm Bill. And then again, 2003 with the funding wasn't actually secured until 2018.

[Yeager]  Okay, so it takes time. It's like anything else in Washington? Absolutely. Yeah. Given the sense of the geography that you're covering in the breadth of programs, are there ones that you've in the middle of this five years had to say this needs more attention or this needs less? How has that shifted?

[Rudolphi]  Yeah, that's a great question. We're constantly sort of assessing what's happening in our 12 states. We do a routine needs assessment to try to figure out you know, where the stressors are, and if they're changing. We also acknowledge that our growers are changing and so there was a time when a lot of our resources and services were very much focused on the principle owner operator, perhaps like male of a certain age. And we acknowledge that there are a lot of people engaged in agricultural production and agricultural work. And so we're certainly starting to think about our producers of color. farm workers, LGBTQ plus producers farm women to think about whether our services and resources are meeting their needs.

[Yeager]  Age wise, I want to, I wrote demo - demographics is something that I want to talk to stress knows no level. I mean, we, I've got two teenagers in my house. I know what their friends and my children are going through. And it's no different than those that are on a farm. Is that true?

[Rudolphi]  It is. So that's a really interesting question we have, I have a research project that's funded by the National Children's Center for Rural and Agricultural Health and Safety up in Marshfield, Wisconsin, and we are actually serving farm families. Because like I said, we have so much attention, worthwhile attention and resources to that farm owner operator. But we know that they're not the only one in the farm environment. So we're surveying farm families to get a better idea of how farm adolescents in the household are experiencing the farm environment. And unfortunately, what we find is that, as I mentioned, we see, you know, 60, to 65% of our farm parents meet the criteria for depression. And we find almost the exact same in our adolescent population. So again, 60 to 65%, are meeting the criteria for depression. And we're screening for depression, we're not diagnosing these are screening instruments that are used in  clinical care, but also in a lot of public health surveys. But it certainly is surprising that we see such a high prevalence not only among adults, but among adolescents. And also, that correlation or that relationship between the parent and adolescent. Whereas it's almost guaranteed that if we screen a parent, and they have depression, it's quite likely that the adolescent will as well.

[Yeager]  And that's because of environment, or is that also tied to biological?

[Rudolphi]  That's a really important question. We are only looking at environment, but we have to acknowledge that some of this is absolutely genetic.

[Yeager]  Okay, I'm gonna go back to that in a minute. I want to I was writing down. First, give me the diagnosis, or what's the diagnosis of depression look like? What are signs?

[Rudolphi]  Yeah. So when we screen people for depression, for example, we use it's called the patient health questionnaire nine. And it's nine questions about symptoms of depression. We don't ask, you know, are you depressed? Because people would say like, me? Of course not. So we asked about really common symptoms of depression. So how often have you in the last two weeks had trouble sleeping, had a change in appetite had, you know a change in the interest of things that you used to enjoy? For example, have you considered self harm or harm to somebody else, and there's nine questions. And depending on how often somebody responds to each of those, whether it's never or, you know, often in the last two weeks, we can then categorize them as, like no depression, mild, moderate, or severe depression. So that's what we do. And again, we're not diagnosing we're screening using these instruments that have been used in a lot of public health surveys. And anybody who has a score of five or more is considered, it could be a clinically significant case of depression, for example. 

[Yeager]  Do you then follow up with those people? I mean, I know you said you're not screening, but how's that? Yeah. What's that like for you? 

[Rudolphi]  Yeah, and as a researcher, that's really important. You know, we're doing this so that we may inform services and resources in the future, but there's obviously people who need help now, and we would never want to leave somebody in a state of crisis. So we work really closely with our institutional review board to ensure that all of our research is ethical and that we're not doing more harm than good. So when people respond to these surveys, we are able to be watching surveys come in and check to see how somebody is emotionally and then offer, you know, call them or follow up. So we do instead because they're all administered online. What we do instead is we have a series of checks. At the beginning, we offer a lot of resources, we have fantastic resources and then blessed that we can refer people to if somebody meets the criteria for severe depression, and or indicates that they have considered self harm. We immediately pause the survey and provide additional resources encourage somebody to talk to, to confide in confidant or consider the 988 Suicide Prevention Health Helpline.

[Yeager]  Okay, so if I'm in the middle of, I get to question five, for instance, and the machine, lack of a better term, determines there's some serious issue, do you pause? And but you also I'm guessing hope is kind of hard thing to do when you're relying on a student for someone to go, golly, I didn't think I was but I, yeah, I hadn't thought about it in that way. You're also hoping that's why you have the information before the middle and at the end.

[Rudolphi]  Yep, absolutely. And then again, at the end, we provide a PDF of resources and that are locally available. 

[Yeager]  Let's go back to that family dynamic then, or their parents who might not understand a, they have the they're depressed, they have depression, and then might not understand it in their own children that have that. Do you find? Is that something that you track?

[Rudolphi]  Absolutely. So we're using the family stress model, which was actually developed at Iowa State University by Dr. Rand Conger, back in the late 1980s, very much as a result of the Farm Crisis. And their teams surveyed about 400 families, farm and nonfarm, but very rural families all were considered rural. And they asked a lot of economic questions. And basically, the family stress model would imply that economics influence parents depressed mood, and I'm simplifying this, which then influences parents, interpersonal relationships with one another, if it's a two parent household, right, that dynamic changes, it also influences the way parents parent, so they might be a little bit more authoritarian, they might be a bit more neglectful. And both of those then impact a child and a child's mental health. So we've asked a lot of questions about farm economics to the parent, and then we screen the parent for depression and anxiety. We asked the adolescent about their parents and their parenting style, and then asked about their mental health stress and or excuse me, depression and anxiety. So when we have enough respondents, and this is the challenging part about research, you often need a lot of respondents to have something that you would say is statistically defensible. We eventually intend to have this sort of model where we'll be able to say, okay, farm economics, because we have all this information about the farm, influences the parent, and that in turn, influences the adolescent. What we have right now is very strong correlation between reported economic situation and parents' depressed mood. And then we have the adolescents depressed mood, which is also incredibly associated with parents depressed mood,

[Yeager]  Did your surveys go out in a blanket, or were they targeted? I mean, they're targeted? Yes, because they're on the farm. But I mean, the whole county might have 15, or 30 different family units that you need to get to?

[Rudolphi]  Absolutely. So that would be ideal, it'd be great if we could have like boots on the ground, going door to door finding farmers, we often buy addresses of farmers, an attempt to mail survey, which doesn't work out. Always ideally. So then we work through we go online, and we work through a lot of our partners, like I said, I have relationships with the 12 extensions in our in our region, Farm Bureau's and others who are willing to put information about the survey in their newsletters or in an email blast or something like that,

[Yeager]  Or podcasts. Or podcasts. There you go. If I want to be a part of this, or know someone and give you an address, what should I do?

[Rudolphi]  Yeah, contact me. You can contact me directly. My email is JosieR@illinois.edu. And we can get you, you or your family or your organization information about the study.

[Yeager]  Now that family unit, so I think about growing up when I did that's the 80s. And it is different. And if I would have had this survey it is and I have relatives that look at Oh, well farming was they still think of it as very, very much a romantic part of it, but maybe lose sight of some of that stress once distance gets away. Is that a hurdle that you have in relating to some people to understand that we still need to address the issue that's on the farm today. And it's not all sunshine and roses. It's a lot. But there's issues that need to be addressed.

[Rudolphi]  Yeah, and I think, you know, thankfully, people have been working in this space a lot longer than I have. And they've done a very nice job of bringing awareness to the realities of farming. And so there's I don't come across anybody who says like, Oh, that is the best job in the world and you are wasting the government's money, right. It doesn't take long to start listing like we already have the weather. Imagine being imagined your entire income is tied to something you have absolutely no control of. Oh, that's That would be stressful. Imagine having no consistent payday, right? Like, a lot of us appreciate a weekly or bi weekly, monthly paycheck? What if you didn't have that? What if you just didn't have health insurance as a function of your job? So it doesn't take long for people to realize it? Wow. You know, I've seen movies, and I've read books. And you can imagine it being this really romantic occupation. But when you start to really talk about it, it's not all, all that.

[Yeager]  You collect all this research. What's next?

[Rudolphi]  Absolutely, so we're really thinking, I think this project especially has really underscored the need for resources and services that meet the family's needs. So like I said, we focus so much on the principle owner operator in a farm, we have a lot of resources for him or her. But we really need to start thinking about how we develop intervention for the family, and maybe even the community? Right, because realizing that it's, you know, if a parent is incredibly stressed, experiencing depression, they may not be able to be their best parent, for that adolescent, or that child, like today. So how do we build community capacity around some of these issues, and perhaps build some support? Such that you don't have to be a great parent every single day, especially when things are stressful? Who else can you rely on in your community to serve as a role model? And others when you are just having a tough time?

[Yeager]  Your surveys? You mentioned anonymity, right? You don't know who it is that's filling this out? Correct? Do you find that there is still a stigma of someone who might be seen going into a clinic for a conversation? They’re still out there.

[Rudolphi]  It's still out there, we hear that constantly. Small towns, everyone knows what you drive. Everyone knows where the mental health clinic is where the therapists offices, it's one reason we're offering a lot of tele services. And so that could be either on Zoom, but it can also be over the phone. So we know that people are still challenged by high speed internet. And that Zoom is not a function or you know, like it's not available for everybody. But we know there's a lot of places that offer true telephone services. And that's maybe one of the best things that has come out of COVID is the availability of providers to provide services over the phone or by Zoom. 

[Yeager]  And that is, again, something they could do in the tractor. I mean, really, you can, you if you have good enough phone service, you can do a lot of that, and you're really removed, you want to be hiding from someone on the back. 40 you can absolutely be away, no one's gonna see you having that conversation.

[Rudolphi]  Definitely, and you're not you don't have to travel. You know, I think a lot of people have traveled 20 or 30 minutes just to their grocer, or you know, where they might go. And so that's just time out of the day that we don't often have. 

[Yeager]  Josie, do you get the sense, though, that there is a generational change in how we openly talk about mental health. I mean, you're around college students more than I am, I'm about to send one there. They are way more to me than what my generation is. And the one before me open to talking about their struggles is Is that accurate? 

[Rudolphi]  Yes, absolutely. We find millennials and definitely younger generations, much more willing to talk about stress, anxiety, depression, which is really exciting. You know, that's encouraging. It offers a lot of opportunity for intervention, but what we know is that they may not be the ones in need of it most. And so we know that older generations, older farmers, especially over 65 are most at risk for suicide. So while there are some generations that are really eager to get this information, and they want it we certainly can't forget about those who probably need it more and the challenges that we have there but the work that we're doing to hopefully reduce stigma in older communities. 

[Yeager]  What was the he just said about highest number for farmers suicide?

[Rudolphi]  Yeah 65 Plus.

[Yeager]  Do you get the sense that the let's let's still use that college age person, that they're going to maybe have influence on their their grandparents and have the opportunity to grandpa grandma they might be a little more forthcoming or abrasive in a good way with rocking the the norms of we don't talk about that?

[Rudolphi]  I think so. I think so. Because now if you would have said can So let's hit me with regeneration system. What I have seen in safety, is that grandparents adopt a lot of or some safety measures for their grandchildren. Perhaps and not the They weren't neglecting their own children. But for whatever reason, you know, we're just being a little bit more proactive when it comes to implementing some of these safety, engineering controls or others on the farm for the grandchildren. So for whatever reason, it seems like safety and health might skip a generation. And I also think there, it's not always easy to talk to, for a middle generation person to talk to their parent about it. But the grandchild and the grandparent, that's just a really interesting relationship anyway, there might be some opportunity there.

[Yeager]  We've talked about memes A while ago, but there'll be the memes that you see of your grandma just did what to you, your grandma, when she was my mother was all about this, this and this. And yes, there is a little different relationship between there. And so is, does that offer you hope or an opportunity, maybe an inroad to being able to help have a conversation?

[Rudolphi]  Absolutely, I think the younger generations could I'm imagining when we think about family, especially family intervention, thinking about conversations that are started, perhaps by the younger generation, taking questions to the farm and asking them and, and serving as sort of that health liaison or somebody who's going to keep a keep an eye on things and keep an eye on people, which I think is an incredibly important role. It's something that every farm should have, but it's not as important as driving the compact.

[Yeager]  And I have here I've neglected the other part of your job about physical safety, the making sure I'm not walking over the PTO shaft and hanging off the edge of the tractor or operating when I'm too tired or something like that. That's also part of what you do. You had said as well, and that's still just as important today.

[Rudolphi]  It is just as important today. And it becomes even more important when we are stressed when we are rushed when we're fatigued, because that's absolutely when traumatic injuries occur, right? When we neglect something, and fortunately, we have a breakdown we have some sort of incident. 

[Yeager]  Alright, Josie, last thing. If someone's listening to this while they're in the cab, doing planting or field work, talk to them about the two types of health that you work with most and in ways that they should hear what you're saying and act.

[Rudolphi]  Yeah, so if you or someone you know, is experiencing incredible stress or depression, we encourage you to reach out to the Suicide Prevention Lifeline 988 If you're in search of farm specific resources, we have over 160 On our website, farm stress.org. We also have a lot of links to safety related materials there. But if you need anything, in particular specifically contact me. My job is really to serve farmers and their safety and health. So contact me I'm Josie are@illinois.edu And we can get you what you need. 

[Yeager]  Josie, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. My thanks to Josie for her time on this topic. Her email is right here on the screen right now. And also you can go to Farmstress.org. To learn more. If you don't want to be seen publicly, things are anonymous. But if you need help, please consider going out of that website. Or if you don't, you're just curious. That's okay too. New episodes come out each and every Tuesday. We're going to be doing a few more in the arena of mental health as the spring rolls into high gear so something to listen to is a little bit different as you're working this spring. Thank you for watching. We'll see you next time.

Contact: Paul.Yeager@IowaPBS.org