Digging Into the Corn Rootworm Issue

Paul Yeager: Time to take that big idea. It's really tiny. And find out what kind of impact it's having. What am I talking about? Today in the MToM podcast, I'm Paul Yeager. You're about to find out. We're going to revisit with someone that we talked to before about nematodes. We're getting scientific, but we're going to talk about the impact it's having on cornfields, not just in Iowa, but all over. Thousands of acres were put into production with this product. And Keegan Shields is back with us again, and we're going to find out how the year 2025 went with the product. He's going to show us some flyover video, see where or at least talk about it and see where the impact was. What happened, where this application is, and another industry that might be a just a tiny bit upset at him. Let him explain. I'm Paul Yeager, I want to hear from you, Paul.Yeager@IowaPBS.org. If you listen to this podcast on a regular basis, send me an email and say, you know, give me a couple of lines about listening and I'll hit you back with what I'm looking for. But I want to hear from a few of you that that take in the MToM podcast or market to market on a regular basis. I kind of want to ask you a few questions and, you can ask me a few things. That's what I'm looking for today. But also this discussion with Keegan Shields as we talk about those tiny little nematodes and the big impact on corn. If you remember, Keegan, you and I met at a dinner a few months. Boy, it's been a year now. Many months ago, the guy who brought us together to dinner asked me recently, hey, did you ever talk to Keegan? And so I sent him the link, and, And he was happy that we had that conversation. Since we last talked, what have been the conversations either you've had with Linus or with others, about the appearance that you've had on this podcast?

[Shields] It's been very, very helpful. I get, people will come up to me or call me and say, oh, I saw you on Market to Market, which is also terrifying, you know, to be out there. I'm not a public personality, not used to that. So, good, good. But also a little embarrassing. You know.

[Yeager] Was there a point where it was kind of a strange interaction or something that maybe you didn't expect?

[Shields] Well, I, haven't watched the interview. You know, I feel like one of those actors that can't watch their own movies. You know, I don't know if you watch your own episodes.

[Yeager] I don't.

[Shields] It's hard and it's very embarrassing. But everybody tells me that you did a great job editing out all of the mistakes I made.

[Yeager] So I don't recall any mistakes. I know, I have to. I read my words a lot, and then that's how I know. Oh, that question was too long. It needs to be shorter, so we'll try that. How about I try that with a simple thing? So let's first, you got the hat. So that's an upgrade. You got merch now that you're wearing. Oh, we got file control. And what?

[Shields] Oh, we got heat in our facility. You do? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's not, it's not, you know, zero degrees in here. So that's an improvement already.

[Yeager] You're in Webster City, Iowa. And, what a lack of a better term. Production facility. Main office? Yep. Is it still the headquarters ish or the northern headquarters?

[Shields] Yeah. This is our main production facility. So all of our product is produced here and then shipped out of here, last spring or last year, I think we use wax worms to produce our nematodes. And, I think we killed about 20 million. There were complaints in the industry that people couldn't find wax worms for ice fishing. And that was probably our fault. So apologies if you're if you're driving by Webster City and you'd like a cup of wax worms. We've got a lot. So.

[Yeager] Okay, well, we'll get into the that part of it in a minute. But tell me what it is that you're doing, and why you needed the, you know, the wax worms. You mentioned the nematodes. Yeah. So we have the company again.

[Shields] We sell a microscopic worm called the nematode. It attacks soil, insects and soil insect pests. We use them in agriculture for pest control. And kind of our unique angle is it's a one time application and should be good for at least a few decades. Based on our research, this all came out of my father's lab at Cornell University over his career. And it was developed originally for an invasive pest. So it's only in, I believe, northern New York. So, you know, pretty small market. He kind of stumbled on that. This works really well. And, and corn and organic vegetables and other things. So now we've we've got ourselves a business and, and, we're trying to get it out to the masses.

[Yeager] The lab is one thing. The larger application is another. You when we last talked, you had already kind of done and had clients. But as you've gotten bigger, does the idea still hold in what the vision was and what the research was?

[Shields] Yeah, it's it it is a big jump to go from the lab, you know, to full production. As my father would say, animal allergist are not very good corn growers. You know, this. They're interested in insect damage. I think it's been really cool to see professional farmers, professional corn growers and what they can do with the technology. We're even starting to see a benefit, even when there's not really bad rootworm damage, you know? So I had a guy call me last spring, and he had a 12 bushel difference between his treated an untreated and, treated with our bio control nematodes. And, the rest of his farm is untreated. So you're talking, you know, 1500 acres compared to 2000 acres. And he was trying to convince me that it was our product. We went and dug his field. There wasn't, you know, ratable root damage, but the only difference was, the bio control nematodes. So we think it's probably preventing some early root damage. And and given, his cornfields a head start. So it's it's constantly, evolving, I would say.

[Yeager] I mentioned Webster City, where you're at and again, center of a lot of corn. Is it still the center of where your clients are?

[Shields] Yeah, we're, we're getting a lot of response in the livestock heavy areas. And, the guys growing continuous corn, they've got a lot of rootworm pressure. They've really stressed out the the traits that they're using to fight. Rootworm. And so those are kind of the initial clusters. They're also the guys that are are, Well, I guess commodity prices have come up since last year a little bit, but,

[Yeager] Well, yeah, the, yeah, some of the livestock guys I talked to just in the last couple of days were just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, cattle is great, but I need them kind of commodity prices higher. So I think they're looking for any type of assistance that you could provide.

[Shields] Yeah, I think most of our customers are growing corn as a feed through, and so if they don't grow it when they're short, they have to buy it. But there also seem to be that the word seems to be getting out as well. You know, for the first time we heard, oh, I've heard of your product, and I believe it works, which is a, you know, a big milestone. They're just trying to figure out how to pay for it. So we're for the first time, we're offering some financing options, through John Deere. And, and that seems to be pretty popular.

[Yeager] What, besides cost, is apprehension still a hurdle?

[Shields] We still offer the first 65 acres. We sell at half price. So. So farmers can try it in their cropping system, see what kind of benefit they get. That's been very effective. You know, even across the state of Iowa, the agriculture varies so much that I think farmers really need to try it on their farms, see what kind of return they get. Some of the trials that we put out this year, they had really bad rootworm in that field. And then this year or this past spring, they just didn't have any pressure. So, it happens. But we kind of play the long game since they're going to be there next year. You know, we'll check back in with them next year and see what kind of benefit they saw.

[Yeager] What was the, 2025, in some big corn growing areas was a challenging year for pests. We heard about, the rust. That's not what you're trying to chase, but does that throw off results or understanding results of your product?

[Shields] Well, I think it everything's always interconnected. You know, we had, we had a field where the guy ran out of. He was applying, our bio-control nematodes to the field. He ran out of product for the last 20 acres. He was told by the applicator who came to spray fungicide, that he couldn't get through the last 20 acres. So because he had really bad rootworm damage, he wasn't able to spray for fungicide. He lost even more yield. So there seems to be all these kind of secondary benefits that you don't necessarily think about, you know, the slower harvest speed of harvesting down corn. You're paying a guy to sit at the edge of the field and the tractor trailer and kind of wait, haul your stuff away, and then you can't get through the corn to spray your fungicide in a year, like, in 25, where plant disease was so widespread. So, you know, I think it's really having a healthy root system, I think is the foundation to a good crop. And you can really lower your inputs, which I know is top of mind. For a lot of guys this year.

[Yeager] We'll recap again how you put the product on. You talk about time of year and long term plays. But again, refresh me on how this thing works at all.

[Shields] Yeah. So it's a one time application. You can spray it, using your ground spray rig. It's a separate pass. So, you don't want to mix it with anything. Roundup or anything. It's just the nematodes that we deliver. And then, you get about 70% impact in the first year. Second year, you get 100% impact. It takes that long for the nematodes to multiply and kind of spread throughout the soil profile. And you can also apply it for, for your viewers, viewers that are out in, irrigated country. You can put it straight to the center of it. So we had quite a few acres in the fall, get applied, through the last, last bit of irrigation for the year.

[Yeager] And forgive me, I'm always learning about irrigation. Do they do that often with chemical or some type of assistance. And so that's that's normal. So see you've fit into the norm of the irrigated acres.

[Shields] We try to fit in and make it as easy as possible. I know if we needed some special equipment, you know, this would be a lot harder. 

[Yeager] Right. Another hurdle for you to climb, right? Yeah. That makes sense. You mentioned, 70% to 100%, but year over year, the rotation side of this thing, how does that work? You mentioned corn on corn on corn. But what about those that just rotate beans, corn being corn, alfalfa or whatever?

[Shields] This the nematodes persist just fine across rotation. There's quite a few soil insects in your soybean acres that that they can persist on. The original research, in New York that we've got 30 years of data of persistence, data on. There. That's for dairies. And they're on a four year corn alfalfa rotation. And so, like one of the early studies was will this persist across when there's corn or alfalfa? So very confident. We went back this fall, this past November down to a field. We applied in 2019, in Roswell, New Mexico. And, we went back and sampled and the biocontrol nematodes are still there. They're still still humming right along. At the levels we'd expect. And we went back and tried to calculate what the benefits been over the last seven years. And, it's between 4 and 500,000. It's a silage field. So, you know, silage is a bit more valuable than, than an acre of, of grain. But, yeah, a huge ROI for I think the farmer spent $9,000 on nematodes. So, we're pretty proud of that. Big return for the grower.

[Yeager] And so the research is 30 years. But the company is how old?

[Shields] We're in year six.

[Yeager] Okay, so again, that six in and soon you're really going to be able to use some of those longer term customers as testimonials. And I guess, in sales, the freight it sells itself.

[Shields] Yeah, I think I think, our business cases get stronger and stronger, you know, with our earlier customers, the more time goes on. That's probably the most hard to believe thing for farmers when we present, it's like, wait, this is I'm going to put this on my field one time, and I. And I don't have to buy it again from you. Where everything else in AG is kind of you know, annual, annual purchase. So, but I think that's, that's the thing that, is such a huge ROI for the farmer.

[Yeager] Well, what are the comments about? Our previous discussion was, it's just I mean, this is just a snake oil product. I mean, this is a benign thing. But years of data are in your court.

[Shields] Yeah, I think if we didn't have the 30 years of university data, if we didn't have, I think 12 or 13 peer reviewed articles on the technology, you know, I probably wouldn't have tried this because I think most of the viewers know how crowded the biological market is. There's a lot of stuff that seems really good in the lab, and then you roll it out, you know, into the field, and it kind of, did it work? Did it not? But, you know, we've got the weight of data. We now have the weight of all the growers that are using it across Iowa, in the Midwest. So I think we're finally reaching a point where we've got a farmer who's agreed to kind of be a referral for other farmers that we can get their contact info from if there's some skepticism, you know, but nothing, nothing is stronger than that. Like the farmers in New York aren't that different from the farmers in Iowa and Nebraska. You know, they watch out for each other.

[Yeager] Well, yeah. I mean, because they're used to the the joke is the half ton white pickup truck showing up in the yard trying to sell them something. And sure, your truck is gray, right? Not white.

[Shields] But and and, two wheel drive. I barely got it. I barely I was going down to South Texas to deliver 100 acres to an organic farmer down there, and I left at the crest of that blizzard that was in central Iowa just before Christmas. And it was a little touch and go there.

[Yeager] Well, I think we were talking then. Yeah, that was a heck of a blizzard. You were lucky to be out of town ahead of that. One more thing about the research for you. The long term aspects of not having the rootworm. I mean, we talk about long term biological effects in soil. I mean, what is that data set of guy? You know what? We do need those invasive pests to be a problem. Because that just messes with the. I mean, what's the research been? For that part of this discussion?

[Shields] Yeah, it's always the next question. Right? Like, am I releasing something that's not in my soil? And what happens if it gets out of control? Would we go out and sample Iowa fields as an example? About 20% of the fields are going to have be positive for these bio control nematodes. So they are native across the US. We never find a field though that's at the level that we're treating. So we're putting on, 50 million to the acre, you know, approximately 40 to 50 million. We never find that in nature. And it so it seems to be where once you reached a tipping point, now you get pest suppression, at an effective level, and that a lot of the research was trying to figure that out, through Cornell. So these are native across the U.S., they're EPA exempt. We ship them into Canada without any special paperwork. Which is a feat on its own. But, we're just we're typically it's the wrong species as well. That's found in Iowa. Which kind of makes sense if Rootworm was developed here, evolved here. You know, the symbiotic, and, or the bio-control nematodes that are found in Iowa probably wouldn't control them.

[Yeager] Yeah, now you're using big words. You're getting credit there on the word find. That's good. Okay. You mentioned organic. What's the role with organic producers and this product?

[Shields] So the these nematodes work really well on wire worm as well, which is a really tough problem in organic. They can't use the neonics seed treatments and some of the insecticides that you can use for wire worm and wire worm are attracted to any kind of grasses. So a lot of organic growers work really hard to. And we control. Right, because they can't use roundup or any of the other herbicides. And they don't have access to GMO seeds. So typically there's a grass in their rotation as well, which is going to pull in, click beetles, which is the adult form. And wire worms have a five year life cycle, you know, or 3 to 5 years, depending on the species. So you can't just rotate away and then and they go away and you come back. Right. And so the organic growers that are growing onions, sweet potatoes, root crops, they'll get these beautiful, organic sweet potato and I'll have bug holes in it. Right. And you can't sell that at Whole Foods. Because, you know, that's not what they want in the suburbs. So they have to, you know, basically throw it out and, or sell it for a reduced amount. So, the research that through Cornell has shown that wire worm damage is reduced about 50 to 80%, which is, you know, an acre of, of sweet potato. That's a lot of sweet potatoes. So, you know, if you're doubling the amount of sweet potatoes that you can sell into kind of the high end brochures, I mean, that's that's big money for the growers.

[Yeager] Do you find that you're going to have a better path to expansion through the organic market than the conventional market?

[Shields] I think it's similar. I'd like to get into these adjacent markets. I'm worried that we're kind of beholden to corn commodity prices right now. If all of our customers are growing corn and corn prices are low, that really puts pressure on, you know, trying to expand and grow sales. So I like to diversify into organic vegetables and, and other markets. I think it'll make our business, you know, lower risk, for all the team members that are here, growing nematodes. And I think it helps, throughout the year. So a lot of our corn sales for corn rootworm, we're delivering that in the spring and April and May, and then June, July, we can put on nematodes for wire worm throughout the year. So that gives us something to do in June and July, and later in the fall, too. So.

[Yeager] Well, and you mentioned garden. That's also another area where tell me how that would work.

[Shields] Yeah. So we're, we're these worked great in the home garden. The big pest there is, black vine weevil. Any of the root weevils are very sensitive to these types of bio-control nematodes. And so a lot of times, farmers or gardeners will buy plants from the nursery there. There's insects, soil, insects in the pot. You transfer it into your garden, and then you get this outbreak of a black vine weevil or other soil insects. And, so you can put this on in your garden. We're planning to sell about 1000 square foot worth of bio control nematodes, and you'd purchase them through our website, and then we'll ship them to you, overnight. Or second day or, you know, around the country.

[Yeager]

Sounds like you need to make a phone call to the people who are growing the plants that go to the box stores that I pick up and put into my garden.

[Shields] Yeah, I agree, I think if it's anything like corn, we're kind of going to have to work our way up. So we have to build the demand and then you get the attention of the retailers and the distributors and, I think we're looking for some gardening clubs, for the spring, who want, we're going to ship free product to them. We need practice with our pick pack and ship in our facility and order processing and all that stuff, because that's new for us. So, I can give you a link, and if we get some gardeners to sign up, we'll ship your product and you fill out a survey for us, tell us how the experience was and treat your garden.

[Yeager] Sounds like maybe, maybe next time you drive south, home stopover in Ames, go to extension and talk to the head of the Master Gardener program. And, you just start. Start simple there. I happen to know a master gardener who lives at this place, who might be interested in something like that. But, again, something that hangs it hangs in the soil for, for a long period of time and, and can help you more than just one year, I'm guessing. Same same concept as the corn field?

[Shields] Same exact concept. I mean, we're taking something that's been used by farmers for 30 years in New York and, and trying to make it available for the home gardener. They're very similar. A lot of home gardeners are familiar with these types of nematodes. You can buy them from other sources. Again, the differences are persist. So you apply them, then you don't have to worry about it. Right. Which is the type of gardener I would be if I gardens. Right. Like I got so many things to worry about. Just, you know, solve this problem for you. I think in the previous interview I put, I mentioned I put them on the neighbors rose bushes, you know, that I look out of every day from my office and, and they, you know, within six months they started blooming and they're back to being healthy.

[Yeager] So, you know, I need to get that person to, to, to be one that gardeners can call.

[Shields] Yeah, yeah, we got to get our camera. Do it, do a testimonial.

[Yeager] You mentioned the wax worm. Tell me how that wax worm story, how that fits into all of this because, you know, I don't know of a wax worm that goes through a sprayer nozzle, so it sounds like that's what's needed behind you.

[Shields] Yep. So we use wax worms to produce the nematodes. So they, the nematodes, crawl inside of the soil. Insects and reproduce inside of them after they kill them. And they produce many more, out of every wax worm, I think we get between 100 to 200,000 more nematodes. So, this past year, we brought 20 million wax worms into the facility, and, and that produced all of our nematodes. And then the machine behind me, we used to separate all the nematodes from the growing medium, and the wax worm, leftovers. So that's kind of the first process in producing our final product. And then we've got a storage, area where we storm, in kind of a clean room in anticipation of delivery.

[Yeager] I don't even know where wax worms come from.

[Shields] Wax worms? Wax worms are, they're in the bait industry.

[Yeager] Well, yeah. Yeah, I know fishing, I get that, but I don't know what their source is?

[Shields] Oh, so they're a natural pest of or a parasite, a bee colonies. So they live inside bee colonies. They, they put paid into a moth. And then I guess they fly around and find other bee colonies to, to colonize. And so they, the larva tunnel through all the, the honeycombs and eat the honey and the wax. I'm right at the edge of my entomology  knowledge. You know, I'm the business guy so. 

[Yeager] Well, is that another issue and challenge for the bee industry? I mean, because, I mean, we always hear about, they're having challenges. And so, I mean, is this a product that you talk about having something else to do in other months? Can you source your own wax worms?

[Shields] Yeah, I think, I think, our future is producing wax worms as well. So we're, we're trying to figure out how to do that, working with some of our suppliers. I think within a couple of years, we'll be consuming all of the wax worms and the bait industry, if they'll sell them to us. So, you know, at some point, we got to start growing them ourselves. 

[Yeager] Well, yeah, I mean, that's just.

[Shields] It gets a bit more complicated right now. You've got to grow the wax worms and then grow the nematodes. So we're working up to that.

[Yeager] What has staffing been like this year for you?

[Shields] Right. So we're hiring and we've expanded manufacturing positions. And also we're looking to hire from our sales team and help us get the word out. I think we've found some really great talent with, you know, some of the layoff cycles and the contraction in the ag markets. I think there's a lot of great talent out there. So it's just, finding and getting connected with the people is challenging, you know, all the normal, LinkedIn and job posting sites seem to be flooded with a lot of applications that aren't really relevant to what you're asking for. So it can be a challenge to wade through all the volume of resumes that you get.

[Yeager] But you are finding I mean, when you mentioned sales, are you finding those people will be beneficial to areas outside of where you currently physically sit? You need them in other areas. You mentioned the dairies or livestock areas. Someone that can work over there would be helpful to you it sounds.

[Shields] Yeah, yeah. I think there's no replacement for having a physical person go and visit with farmers and host meetings. We're looking to expand into northwest Illinois, southern Wisconsin. Western eastern Nebraska. And the corridor kind of, northwest Iowa, up into South Dakota, where there's a lot of livestock and dairies and cattle feeders.

[Yeager] Let's say we cover gardening. We've covered organics, we've covered growth. I'm going to go back to one last thing here as we finish Keegan. And that's the input side of this discussion. Every time I have a conversation with a farmer or a market analyst, inputs always come up. The input cost.

[Shields] Yeah. Yeah.

[Yeager] You mentioned it yourself, you know. Yes. You're another input, but yours has an asterisk because it's the 1 to 2 time application. One time. One time. Well, yeah. I mean I'm sorry you get the pass, but how do you make the case in an environment where the input is as high as it is?

[Shields] Well, I think, one of the reasons we're offering financing is so that farmers want to pay for it right away. You know, you can get the benefit this year and then pay for it in the fall. When you've made some of the ROI back. So I think that's helpful. And then eliminating some of your other inputs, you put on these bio control nematodes, let's say in corn, year two, you can stop using your soil insecticide, you know, depending on if you're doing liquid or granular, that could be anywhere from 10 to $30 an acre that you're saving. And that's every year for the next, how far you want to go out, you know, 20 years, ten years. So that it just builds over time. And I think it's really cool. How much value we can, we can get back to the farmer and then in, in years where so this year we didn't have any drought conditions. I don't think in Iowa, we see even bigger yield benefits, a yield recovery, under drought. You know, when you really need a strong root system, you need corn to go mine for the water and all the inputs you're putting on. Obviously, if you're if your roots are all chewed off, you're going to take quite a bit of yield hit, right? So you're looking at, we even had a, grower out in an irrigated country apply for, a grant for, reduced water usage, you know, because the bio control nematodes are protecting the roots, they're he's having to use less water in his irrigation. And, and I believe they help pay for, you know, part of the bio control nematodes. So we try and, give the farmer the parameters and then get out of their way because they're going to take it to the next level.

[Yeager] And once you tell that story, somebody else might get that idea.

[Shields] And there might be a lot of applications coming.

[Yeager] Yeah. But I mean, also, again, the drought, I mean, whether it's a cycle or a wet, a mixed, dry, you know, that happens. You're bound to hit one. I mean, yeah, we hit dry at the end of the growing season in Iowa and yeah, Illinois. I mean, it had various times and things like that. When you mentioned 20, 25, do you put the word success behind it yet?

[Shields] Yeah. Yeah, I, I think it was a great year. We sold 25,000 acres. We basically sold out a product, and, and we should have, with our, our improvements, 30,000 acres available for the spring. So trying to double every year, we'll see how it goes. But, yeah, I think overall a success. We, we got some cool drone shots from, from some tests we did this year and, our last year in Iowa, which, I can send you the you can see the application lines, where there were nematodes and where they weren't, based on, you know, down corn and and the coolest part that those nematodes were applied in 2024. So they were applied the year before. There was no pressure. And then we saw a lot of rootworm pressure this year in that field. And, it was very compelling. I made a poster out of it, so.

[Yeager] Well, it's able to push back is what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it sounds like, I better let you get back to work because there's people behind you that are, like. Seriously, is he done yet talking about.

[Shields] Yeah, yeah. The teams are ready to go. They don't want to be here like so.

[Yeager] Thanks, Keegan. Great to see you. Thank you so much for the time.

[Shields] Thank you.

[Yeager]

My thanks as always to the production crew at Iowa PBS, Sean Ingrassia, Reid Denker, Kevin Rivers, Neil Kyer, Julie Knutson and David Feingold. They make this possible each and every week through their technical work. David Miller is the executive producer of Market to Market. We will see you next time. Thank you for watching, listening or reading the MToM podcast.